Two things that are frustrating the hell out of me

[IranBT]

Some background info:

- I have an 06 non-navi with 6MT in PWP
- She has 12000KM on it
- I have driven nothing but manuals in my driving life(12 years)
- I love her(the TSX), so don't say "just go buy another car". I don't want to buy another car. I want to know how to overcome this.


1. Shifting from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd and sometimes 3rd to 4th(mostly only 1st to 2nd) is just impossible to master. The longthrow of the clutch is not much help. I have tried every possible combination(fast shift, slow shift, clutch slip, clutch dump, high rpm, low rpm and ...) and there's no consistent answer to eliminiating the notch. I have managed to get extremely smooth shifts, but never felt comfortable in my next attempt as a lot of times I failed miserably.

2. When racing the engine and trying to get the fastest possible pickup(changing the gear at 7100 rpm), as soon as I apply gas and let go of the clutch, the car suddenly chokes and has a 1-second lag which makes me want to jump out the sunroof and kill myself. This happens only when shifting very fast and applying almost full-throttle. I solely blame the Drive-By-Wire technology for this.


Something to think about:

Twice within the last 3 months, I have had an RSX 5MT as a loaner(Very nice dealer I know!) and attempting the same things in the RSX was nothing but pure joy. No notch between the shifts, no lag when racing the car and a much shorter clutch-throw.

I have never had this problem in my previous manual cars: 88 Accord, 99 Civic, 88 Civic, 88 Mazda 323, 93 Integra GSR, 89 Ford Tempo and 2002 BMW 325i.


The TSX is like a piece of jewel to me, and I will be very very heartbroken if I had to let her go because of these problems.

My question to you good people is:

Is it just mine, or all TSXs have these problems? if they all have this, how come no one complains about it?
Is it my driving? How come it never was a problem in my other cars?


Keep in mind that I learned driving manual cars on very steep hills in a 1969 Chevy Nova that basically had no clutch and no emergency-brake. I have done my homework on manual transmissions and can claim to know the basics of how it works.

Give me hints, give me hope. I love my car, but the notchy shift and the damn lag are making me fall out of love.

Thanks,

A pissed off member

[Brandon24pdx]

http://**************.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34545

besides that, you might look at changing shift knobs. Honda makes a weighted titanium knob for the S2000 that fits the TSX shifter. This can sometimes help smooth out a notchy shifter and give it a more positive feel.

as for the bogging, im not familiar with it, some people claim that the Hondata reflash make the car run "smoother" (but I cant back this up.)

[StevenRFrancis]

Hello IranBT,

First off, as a fellow new owner I would love to welcome you to the group. I too LOVE my '06 6-MT NBP!
Yes you are right on blaming the Drive-by-wire technology! But once you actuallt master it, you WILL begin to love it! I promise. I don't know exactly how the drive by wire technology works. But what I DO know is that it REQUIRES you to keep your foot on the gas. I also got bugged by this and searched the forums about a week ago. Someone mentioned this and the next morning I went out and tested it myself.
So when up-shifting ANY gear, try to leave the throttle at least 5% presed in. The reason for this: (purely non-factual) in order to get better gas mileage, the drive-by-wire system cuts off most of the fuel flow to the engine when the throttle is fully de-pressed. When leaving it pressed in while shifting, it almost feels like an automatic. :mardi: I too, have driven MANY MT cars, mostly hondas. The TSX has the BEST shift I have ever experienced (when using this method) OMG! Is all I said to myself the first time I figured it out.

[nachob]

There are many threads discussing this problem. I have driven manuals for over 20 years and have never had such a hard time getting a smooth power shift as I did with my 2005 TSX. I eventually got used to it and it took practice but I alway felt angry that I had to negotiate with the car to get the damn gear in. It is caused by the drive by wire mapping being off and the clutch has a long throw without a real "sweet spot." Since the clutch throw is long and the DBW cuts off the engine if you completely lift off the clutch, the car stumbles or bucks. I now drive a BMW 325i which I believe is also DBW but it shifts perfectly as did every other manual I have ever owned. The trick is to ALWAYS keep slight pressure on the throttle so as not to let the engine get completely cut off during the upshift and slip the clutch a bit. You will eventually get used to it. Those are some of the subtleties I have brought up in the difference between the 3 series and TSX that I have noticed. They are minor to most people but really aggravated me. The shifting bugged me as did the overboosted brakes. They are too sensitive and not linear. Give it some time and you will get do fine. I eventually got pretty good at it though I never liked it because sometimes I would be in a situation where I had to accelerate out of jam and I would forget the TSX trick the car would almost put me through the windshield when shifting hard. Hang in there and try leaving your foot on the gas during upshift. Also, you guys and gals that are having this problem, need to let Acura know so they can fix the DBW. I have been saying this for over two years now and many people are still in Honda denial....like if Honda did it, it CAN'T be wrong. If you don't complain to Honda, they won't fix it.

IB

[nachob]

Hello IranBT,

First off, as a fellow new owner I would love to welcome you to the group. I too LOVE my '06 6-MT NBP!
Yes you are right on blaming the Drive-by-wire technology! But once you actuallt master it, you WILL begin to love it! I promise. I don't know exactly how the drive by wire technology works. But what I DO know is that it REQUIRES you to keep your foot on the gas. I also got bugged by this and searched the forums about a week ago. Someone mentioned this and the next morning I went out and tested it myself.
So when up-shifting ANY gear, try to leave the throttle at least 5% presed in. The reason for this: (purely non-factual) in order to get better gas mileage, the drive-by-wire system cuts off most of the fuel flow to the engine when the throttle is fully de-pressed. When leaving it pressed in while shifting, it almost feels like an automatic. :mardi: I too, have driven MANY MT cars, mostly hondas. The TSX has the BEST shift I have ever experienced (when using this method) OMG! Is all I said to myself the first time I figured it out.

Sorry, I wrote mine before reading yours....you already said it.

IB

[Brandon24pdx]

The DBW programming does seem better on the 06+. I drove an 05 5AT for about 13 months before I got sick of the auto trans (which was the main reason I sold the car), it had terrible DBW lag if you caught it just right in a low speed manuever.

The 06 6MT I've got now doesnt SEEM to do this like the 05 auto did, but then again your driving behaivior in a manual will be different than an auto, so that could be the reason I havent noticed it :dunno:

Yeah Ill admit the first month of driving the MT I didnt like how the new gearbox shifted or how the clutch pick-up felt, but they both mellow out after some running in.

[Brandon24pdx]

http://**************.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34545

besides that, you might look at changing shift knobs. Honda makes a weighted titanium knob for the S2000 that fits the TSX shifter. This can sometimes help smooth out a notchy shifter and give it a more positive feel.

as for the bogging, im not familiar with it, some people claim that the Hondata reflash make the car run "smoother" (but I cant back this up.)


that link I posted was in refference to the new 2007 Honda/Acura manual transmission fluid:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a298/l4nd0/newMTF.png

Apparantly they wouldnt let me link directly to on the forum that starts with "Acura" and ends with "zine". (This where I roll my eyes as hard as I can)

[psteng19]

I've gotten better at it, after a few thousand miles of practice, lol :cool:
I'm at 7k now and still not all my shifts are smooth, so it's not just you.

And you're right, it's most pronounced during the 1->2.
It's not a deal breaker for me though.

[HondaSales]

i have been driving manual transmissions for 15 years now. my major problem with the drive by wire is the downshifting. i am just not able to rev match during heel toe downshifting like i could with my previous cars. any suggestions on this?

[nachob]

i have been driving manual transmissions for 15 years now. my major problem with the drive by wire is the downshifting. i am just not able to rev match during heel toe downshifting like i could with my previous cars. any suggestions on this?

Yes, the DBW is "Zingy" so it's hard to modulate well. The bigger problem I had with heel and toe was that the brakes were not linear and overboosted making it difficult to be downshifting while braking. If you applied some brake pressure while trying to downshift, the brakes would grab. They were not linear, meaning that the more pressure you applied, the more braking you got. They would just grab all of a sudden. It's not me either, I had a friend drive my car. He is a professional driver for Mazda's and Cadillac's challenge program. They take people in all different cars to Compare them to their cars. Anyway, he has raced and driven every car in the world ...almost and he said the same thing. Brakes are overboosted. Furthermore, I had never driven a BMW in my life, but after I bought my 3 series, I tried heel and toe the first time and it was as if I had the car for years. It was perfect.

IB

[narci]

Moved to correct forum

[DAYTA]

i have been driving manual transmissions for 15 years now. my major problem with the drive by wire is the downshifting. i am just not able to rev match during heel toe downshifting like i could with my previous cars. any suggestions on this?

It's not just you. I too have serious throttle modulation issues with this crappy DBW system. It's almost impossible to consistently blip the throttle to the correct RPM. I usually have to double-tap the throttle, overrev slightly, and wait for the revs to drop before I let go of the clutch. This gets frustrating since I can't take turns the way I'd like to. Also, I get annoyed when I overrev a little too much and the guy next to me thinks that I'm trying to race him.

I'm thinking about saying "F you" to my A/C, radio, gauges, and other ameneties and doing a full throttle cable swap - at least that way I'd be able to have a K-pro!

[Boris]

Thanks StevenRFrancis!!

I don't know what the world did before the internet but I was getting very frustrated about the shifting of my new TSX. I have been driving manual transmissions forever and every day felt like I was just learning to shift. My wife mentioned how jerky the car felt and I went searching for a solution. The "5% rule" seems to have done the trick...if I just ride the gas (like I ride the clutch :) ) when shifting the car is really fun to drive and very smooth......I am still not thrilled with the high release point on the clutch, but everything seems much better now!!

[jfive]

I have felt the same thing as you guys. I had a 96 GSR for a long time and loved the shifting in that, but the TSX is way different. It's very hard to get a good shift out of it. I have tried leaving pressure on the gas pedal, but I always end up slipping the clutch when I do that and my friends comment about it. Not sure what else to do. Oh well. Other then that, I love the car.