Mitsubishi could be no more.

[ChinchillaX]

from www.autoweek.com

DaimlerChrysler to quit Mitsubishi
Reuters / April 22, 2004

STUTTGART, Germany -- DaimlerChrysler AG said on Thursday it was pulling out of Mitsubishi Motors, leaving its bid to become a global carmaker in disarray and throwing the future of the ailing Japanese firm into doubt.

The group said that it had decided not to participate in a rescue capital increase planned by Mitsubishi Motors Corp. because it could not agree on an acceptable deal with other shareholders in the loss-making company.

It also said it would not provide any further financial support to Mitsubishi, Japan's only unprofitable carmaker.

"This clearly means separation," a DaimlerChrysler spokesman said, adding that the 37 percent stake would be booked as discontinued business until a buyer could be found.

Mitsubishi representatives could not immediately be reached for comment.

The decision came after an extraordinary meeting of the DaimlerChrysler supervisory and management boards on Thursday.

Supervisory board sources said earlier that the company had discussed selling its 10 percent stake in South Korea's largest carmaker Hyundai Motor Co. Ltd., worth about 850 million euros ($1 billion), to help fund the Mitsubishi rescue.

Mitsubishi, Japan's fourth largest and only unprofitable carmaker, had been planning to present details of a 700 billion yen ($6.39 billion) bailout to shareholders on April 30.

Reeling from losses generated by a disastrous strategy of offering cheap car loans in the U.S., Mitsubishi is expecting a net loss of 72 billion yen for the 12 months to March 31. It had a profit of 37.36 billion yen the previous year.

Mitsubishi Motors' net automotive debt stood at around 726 billion yen six months ago, while total interest-bearing debt was 1.141 trillion.

"This could be the end for Mitsubishi if nobody else injects fresh capital," said one industry source.

DaimlerChrysler bought the stake in Mitsubishi over three years ago with a view to expanding its presence in Asia. It has since worked to establish closer production ties between the Japanese firm and its other problem child, U.S. automaker Chrysler, to cut

[Joker]

This is very interesting! Mitsubishi is Japan's only car manufacturer not making a profit, and it has to do with losses generated by a disastrous strategy of offering cheap car loans in the U.S :eek:

[ChinchillaX]

I heard rumors that the new Galants aren't selling as well as Mitsubishi had hoped. Then there is this pointless ad from the Superbowl with the Galant GTS vs. Camry XLE.

www.seewhathappens.com

What a waste of two good Nissan Sentras and the Camry doesn't even crash.:rolleyes:

[TSX 'R' US]

Originally posted by 2004_Acura_TSX
I heard rumors that the new Galants aren't selling as well as Mitsubishi had hoped. Then there is this pointless ad from the Superbowl with the Galant GTS vs. Camry XLE.

www.seewhathappens.com

What a waste of two good Nissan Sentras and the Camry doesn't even crash.:rolleyes:
Yeah...that commercial was pretty lame...

[TSX 'R' US]

So what are we to do without riced out evos and eclipses? :D

[ChinchillaX]

Originally posted by TSX 'R' US
So what are we to do without riced out evos and eclipses? :D

like this. :Puke: asdfg

[ChinchillaX]

:Puke:

[TSX 'R' US]

Yep....I mean they're nice cars....but to a certain point. And that one defineatly passed the point.

[ChinchillaX]

Here is one from last summer as I was driving in my TSX. A whole convoy of ricers heading to H/N.

[ChinchillaX]

Sorry for going overboard and off topic with the rice.:D

Anyhow, I don't know what this news will mean for the Bloomington-Normal Illinois DSM plant. They build the Endeavor SUV, Galant, Eclipse, Dodge Stratus coupe, and Chrysler Sebring coupe. There are rumors that they might shut it down and such. Also, an interesting note.....Mitsubishi entered the Canadian market for the first time back in 2003. They had tremendous success the first few months and then BOOM! sales pludge! I wonder if they will back out of their market and dealers lose out, plus they don't sell the Lancer EVO in Canada.:donno:

[larchmont]

Mitsubishi, I think, has had kind of a bell-shaped curve over the last 20-25 years. Seems to me that people didn't much think of it as a really major player until the early or mid-'80's, then we started thinking of their cars as worth taking a look at, along with Toyotas and Hondas and maybe even more desirable than those in some cases. Then -- not sure exactly when, maybe about 10-12 years ago, it became less interesting, even began sucking a bit. I guess that would mean there was a period of about a decade where Mitsubishis were rising and were well-regarded. That's been my impression anyway. Anybody else?

Also, BTW......I understand that cars is only a small portion of what Mitsubishi does, so that would mean that regardless of the Daimler-Chrysler/Mitsubishi thing, and regardless of what becomes of the cars, the company would still exist. I also understand that the car company and the rest of Mitsubishi are now sort of separate companies -- I think mostly separate but not totally separate. I never did get exactly what the deal is, some kind of anti-monopoly or anti-trust thing or some such -- it used to be all one company but it was split up. And I think the "other" Mitsubishi is much bigger than the car company.

[hondafreak4eva]

there latest line of cars does include a SINGLE car i would even consider buying.. the grills they modified LOOK NASTY...

[WanTing]

here's the update

Mitsubishi group united to help Mitsubishi Motors (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040423/ts_afp/japan_germany_auto_040423080425)

BTW, their stock price was down 25% on the Tokyo market in one day.... :eek:

[larchmont]

Originally posted by WanTing
here's the update

Mitsubishi group united to help Mitsubishi Motors (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040423/ts_afp/japan_germany_auto_040423080425)
Well, I stand corrected -- there are FOUR Mitsubishi companies!!!! (At least 4, can't tell if there aren't more.)

This article is about the other 3 saying they're going to help the car company.

[briny319]

I hope mitsubishi goes out of business. It will be one less sh*tty car company.

[MarkPinTx]

Here is one thing Mitsubishi has done over the years:

http://www.compass.dircon.co.uk/Zeke-b.jpg

Inasmuch as my father fought a war with Japanese, I have previously been semi-reluctant to buy a ricer.

Interesing to note that Honda Motor Company was founded during the American occupation in 1946.

[TSX 'R' US]

Originally posted by MarkPinTx

Interesing to note that Honda Motor Company was founded during the American occupation in 1946.
I heard someone mention that either GM or Ford owns a small percentage of Honda...and possibly Toyota...back in the post war days. But I don't know if it's true or not.

[ChinchillaX]

Originally posted by TSX 'R' US
I heard someone mention that either GM or Ford owns a small percentage of Honda...and possibly Toyota...back in the post war days. But I don't know if it's true or not.

It was Toyota, Honda went to them with his ideas and such, but they weren't interested. So, he went and made his own motors and put them on bicycles.

[GRAYTSX]

Originally posted by larchmont
Mitsubishi, I think, has had kind of a bell-shaped curve over the last 20-25 years. Seems to me that people didn't much think of it as a really major player until the early or mid-'80's, then we started thinking of their cars as worth taking a look at, along with Toyotas and Hondas and maybe even more desirable than those in some cases. Then -- not sure exactly when, maybe about 10-12 years ago, it became less interesting, even began sucking a bit. I guess that would mean there was a period of about a decade where Mitsubishis were rising and were well-regarded. That's been my impression anyway. Anybody else?

The only thing I disagree with you here are the years that Mitsubishi was a major player. In the 80's you had the Sigma & Cordia that you really didn't take a second look at. The only interesting car they had was the Starion.
It wasn't until the introduction of the Eclipse in '90 that really put Mitsubishi on the map. All thru the '90's the Eclipse, & to a lesser degree the Galant kept them alive. Then towards 2000 they started catering to a different audience, and now look what happened.
Just my .02

[larchmont]

Originally posted by GRAYTSX
.....All thru the '90's the Eclipse, & to a lesser degree the Galant kept them alive. Then towards 2000 they started catering to a different audience.....
What audience was that? :donno: :D :donno: :D :donno:

Actually.....recently I got a Galant as a rental, and I found it OK. Not great, but definitely satisfactory for a rental. A bit puzzling -- it felt somehow closer to my type of car than any of what I thought were the comps, like the Camry and even the Accord, although a little less well put together.

And by coincidence I just now saw a commercial for the Galant which made me understand why I liked it. The commercial emphasizes that the Galant is "the biggest car in its class." Aside from this being an odd way to push a car, it made me curious about wtf they were talking about because I was pretty sure it couldn't be bigger than the Camry and Accord; I'd never take a liking to a car like that. So I looked up the dimensions. And here's the deal.

The Galant isn't considered a "mid-size," it's considered a "compact," and so those cars like the Camry and Accord aren't its comps. And I noticed that now the "compact" category has become a pretty weird category. The cars that I would have thought were compacts, like the Accord and Corolla, are SUBCOMPACTS! Here are some of what are in the "compact" category: Mazda 6 (!), Hyundai Sonata, Pontiac Grand Am (!), Pontiac Vibe (!!), Toyota Matrix (!!!) ..... and the Galant. Also BTW the PT Cruiser. (And yes, the Galant is bigger than all those.) Tell me that isn't a weird category -- and even weirder that this is what's being called compacts. I guess this must not be particularly new, but I never noticed before. And I guess it's because of all those recent years when they kept "growing" all the cars. The "midsize" cars, although they've mostly gotten shrunk a tad in the last couple of years, are still way bigger than they used to be, and BTW they're TOO BIG for a lot of people, including me. Also, BTW, most of these "compacts" are actually BIGGER than the TSX!!! (Although not in weight.) So it looks like if the TSX weren't considered semi-luxury, it would be considered a compact, not a mid-size.

And I thought I knew the TSX.

And this tells me why I sort of liked the Galant: It's my preferred size of car, which not that many other cars are. It didn't seem to have quite the quality of Hondas and Toyotas, but it was more my basic kind of car than any recent Hondas or Toyotas.

[TSX 'R' US]

while you're talking about size classifications... I dont' get it. The TSX is just slightly larger than the Corolla...yet its still considered a mid-size (though I have seen the TSX classified as a compact). But the Corolla is considered a compact...to some. Car rentals classify the Corolla as a midsize... :confused: :confused: :confused:

Maybe they measure the interior of the cars...but then again... We've got my TSX and my brother's 03 Corolla...if the interior of the Corolla is a midsize, the TSX must be a full size then...

Ok, back on topic..
When I was in Cali a few years ago...I had a galant rental. The size was great...enough room and comfy. However, when closing the door, I felt like I was closing a sheet of metal. Definately quality wasn't there...but I think the car looked decent :p

[GRAYTSX]

Originally posted by larchmont
What audience was that? :donno: :D :donno: :D :donno:



For example, the Eclipse in the '90's was catered to the enthusiast, at least the GSX & GS-T was. Look what it is today.
See their commercials and figure out who they're marketing to (excluding the Galant)

We've owned a few Eclipses so I'm not ignorant to the subject:
90 GS turbo
91 Eagle talon
97 GSX
98 GSX
and my mother has a '94 Galant.

The Eclipses were fun to drive but the had their share of problems.
I think Mitsubishi is the only Japanese car company that Consumer Reports doesn't rate very high for reliability.
I wouldn't buy any of their current models, there just isn't anything interesting.

[larchmont]

Well yes, I guess you're right about that. http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14837


Recently I was with some friends and friends-of-friends, and when we went driving in my TSX, one of them, this kid (a real child, I mean like 22 or something) said some things about it that showed he really knows cars. Including that he thought the 4-cyl was extremely good but Acura could have maybe eked more power out of it. I thought I was really putting him in his place when I pointed out that there aren't many 4-cyls out there with more power. He asked what the hp and torque were, and I told him -- 200 and 166.

And right away he says, "Well, the '95 Eclipse had 205 and 205......"

[TSX 'R' US]

Originally posted by larchmont
Well yes, I guess you're right about that. http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14837


Recently I was with some friends and friends-of-friends, and when we went driving in my TSX, one of them, this kid (a real child, I mean like 22 or something) said some things about it that showed he really knows cars. Including that he thought the 4-cyl was extremely good but Acura could have maybe eked more power out of it. I thought I was really putting him in his place when I pointed out that there aren't many 4-cyls out there with more power. He asked what the hp and torque were, and I told him -- 200 and 166.

And right away he says, "Well, the '95 Eclipse had 205 and 205......"
I bet those numbers are from a turbocharged eclipse.

[larchmont]

Originally posted by TSX 'R' US
I bet those numbers are from a turbocharged eclipse.
Could be. I don't know, but I do know that as soon as I could, I googled '95 Eclipse along with 205 hp and 205 torque, and to my surprise, a whole bunch of matches came up, with those exact numbers for the car. That was enough confirmation for me and I stopped right there.

[TSX 'R' US]

Originally posted by larchmont
Could be. I don't know, but I do know that as soon as I could, I googled '95 Eclipse along with 205 hp and 205 torque, and to my surprise, a whole bunch of matches came up, with those exact numbers for the car. That was enough confirmation for me and I stopped right there.
There were 4 Eclipse models in '95
RS & GS (don't know hp/torque numbers for those)
GS-T and GSX are turbocharged models that output 210hp/205torque.

[GRAYTSX]

Originally posted by larchmont
Well yes, I guess you're right about that. http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14837

Uh oh, who's the whipee here? :nervous:

[ChinchillaX]

Originally posted by larchmont
Well yes, I guess you're right about that. http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14837


lol, that smilie is funny.:laugh:

[larchmont]

Originally posted by GRAYTSX
Uh oh, who's the whipee here? :nervous:
I guess we'll just have to take turns. :naughty:

[GRAYTSX]

Originally posted by larchmont
I guess we'll just have to take turns. :naughty:

:help:

[larchmont]

Originally posted by GRAYTSX
:help:
Don't count on much help. I think everyone wants to see the outcome of this. :D

[Whatchamacallit]

My dad has spent several business trips over in Japan working with the people from Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.

Upon his return from his trips, he always marvels at how Mitsubishi makes something as trivial like pencils to something complicated like aerospace parts to everything in between.

Even though their car division is struggling, i think their other divisions are profitable enough to take the loss and keep the car division alive.

[WanTing]

new update

Mitsubishi may receive another blow

Mitsubishi Fuso exec grilled over false report (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040426a1.htm)

(Before the accident) they frequently saw front-wheel hubs break apart, which was the cause of the accident. Police believe the company was able to foresee the accident but did nothing about it. Police would file the charges in early May.
BYW, Mitsubishi Motors knew of defects since 1996 " :mad:

[larchmont]

Originally posted by WanTing
new update

Mitsubishi may receive another blow

Mitsubishi Fuso exec grilled over false report (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040426a1.htm)

(Before the accident) they frequently saw front-wheel hubs break apart, which was the cause of the accident. Police believe the company was able to foresee the accident but did nothing about it. Police would file the charges in early May.
BYW, Mitsubishi Motors knew of defects since 1996 " :mad:
A few days ago, Bloomberg radio (the local business station, but I think it's syndicated nationally and even internationally) had an interview about the Mitsubishi situation, and one of the questions was -- What's been wrong with the company? The main thing the guy said was quality issues, including both general quality issues and specific problems. He said a big problem has been things connected with recalls, including the sheer number of recalls, delaying necessary recalls, and -- this next one I don't understand -- trying to cover up recalls -- how can you do that?

[WanTing]

For sure they have some serious quality issues!!!
Just in 2000 and 2001 alone, Mitsubishi recalled over 2 million vehicles worldwide :eek:

and guess what.. more bad news for Mitsubishi

Costly to quit SA, Mitsubishi warned (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,9393184%255E1702,00.html)

[bob shiftright]

Originally posted by larchmont
A few days ago, Bloomberg radio (the local business station, but I think it's syndicated nationally and even internationally) had an interview about the Mitsubishi situation, and one of the questions was -- What's been wrong with the company? The main thing the guy said was quality issues, including both general quality issues and specific problems. He said a big problem has been things connected with recalls, including the sheer number of recalls, delaying necessary recalls, and -- this next one I don't understand -- trying to cover up recalls -- how can you do that?

Do you remember the Mitsubishi sexual harassment cases? This must date from well over 10 years ago because I remember using it as a theme for an Organizational Behavior paper when I was getting my MBA. Anyway, I was at first incredulous that the top executives would be encouraging this until I looked at Mitsubishi in Consumer Reports and saw all the "Black Dots". My conclusion was that the Mitsubishi corporate culture encouraged the workers to spend more time and attention to goosing the women on the assembly line with their air wrenches than to designing and building the cars.

If it was obvious to me 10 years ago it should have been obvious to the DC executives. They should have taken the Mitsubishi management out into the woods and shot them in the best German tradition!

(BTW, Larch, does that icon of yours represent German management technique?) :confused:

[larchmont]

LOLOLOLOL!

[pocketkiller]

Believe it or not, but there is currently a mitsubishi full size truck in concept. I saw it at an automotive survey...butt ugly.

[ChinchillaX]

Yet another blow to the troubled automaker.

[b]Head of Japan's Mitsubishi Motors resigns

Rolf Eckrodt quits after DaimlerChysler ends fundingThe Associated Press

Updated: 8:08 a.m. ET April 26, 2004

TOKYO - Rolf Eckrodt resigned Monday as chief executive and president of Mitsubishi Motors Corp., just days after key stakeholder DaimlerChrysler AG’s announcement it won’t offer more money to finance the struggling Japanese company’s turnaround.

Mitsubishi Motors said in a statement that a replacement will be chosen soon, but Keiichiro Hashimoto, chief financial officer, will be acting president until then.

The Tokyo-based automaker, which is burdened with a multibillion dollar debt, plunging car sales and a spate of recalls, was dealt a serious blow by the announcement last Thursday by the U.S.-German automaker that it would not provide a multibillion dollar cash infusion as had been expected.

The German-born Eckrodt, formerly president of Adtranz, the rail systems unit of DaimlerChrysler, was sent in by DaimlerChrysler in 2001 to lead a turnaround at Mitsubishi Motors.

He had recently hinted he would step down. But expectations had been for him to make way for leadership that will carry out a new revival plan with extra cash from DaimlerChrysler, which owns 37 percent of Mitsubishi Motors.

Eckrodt, 61, will retire from a 38-year career in the auto business although he will provide support for Mitsubishi Motors at the automaker’s request, the company statement said.

Eckrodt said he was stepping down because of DaimlerChrysler’s decision against financial support and the subsequent decision by the Mitsubishi group companies to hammer out a different revival plan.

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries owns 15 percent of the automaker, trading company Mitsubishi Corp. a 5 percent stake, and Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi 3 percent.

Eckrodt said the Mitsubishi team under the leadership of chairman Yoichiro Okazaki will be working out a plan within a month.

DaimlerChrysler has not said what it will do with its 37 percent stake in Mitsubishi Motors.

DaimlerChrysler’s chief financial officer Manfred Gentz has said the two automakers’ joint projects in Chrysler, Smart and other passenger cars will continue.

But analysts say Mitsubishi Motors’ lagging sales are likely to dip even further now and its chances for recovery are precarious because Mitsubishi companies are unlikely to have enough cash to fund a revival plan.

In Tokyo trading Friday, Mitsubishi Motors shares plunged 25 percent to the day’s allowed limit. The issue fell further Monday, sinking 3.32 percent to 233 yen ($2.14). The other shareholders, including Mitsubishi Tokyo Financial Group and Mitsubishi Heavy, also finished down Monday on the Tokyo Stock Exchange.

Mitsubishi Motors’ image never recovered after it acknowledged four years ago that it had systematically hidden auto defects for decades and announced a massive recall.

It embarked on a revival plan and returned to profitability in fiscal 2002, but the following year suffered massive losses from buyers in North America with bad credit. And the recalls have continued despite DaimlerChrysler’s efforts to upgrade quality.

Mitsubishi Motors is forecasting a 72 billion yen ($661 million) loss for the fiscal year ended March 31, a reversal from 37 billion yen in profit the previous year. Its debts total 1.14 trillion yen ($10 billion).

Mitsubishi Motors spun off its truck division last year, and analysts say Mitsubishi Fuso Truck & Bus Corp. remains a key part of DaimlerChrysler’s ambitions to expand its truck business in Asia’s growing marketRolf Eckrodt has resigned as chief executive of Mitsubishi Motors Corp., a DaimlerChrysler spokesman said Monday, in the wake of last week's decision by the German automaker not to invest more money in its troubled Japanese partner.

DaimlerChrysler spokesman Thomas Froehlich said it was a "personal" decision on Eckrodt's part. The German executive had been sent by DaimlerChrysler to Mitsubishi, in which it owns a 37 percent stake.

Source (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4835764/)

[larchmont]

Originally posted by larchmont
.....The Galant isn't considered a "mid-size," it's considered a "compact"......the "compact" category has become a pretty weird category. The cars that I would have thought were compacts, like the Accord and Corolla, are SUBCOMPACTS!.....
it looks like if the TSX weren't considered semi-luxury, it would be considered a compact, not a mid-size.....
And, BTW, the BMW 3-series would be considered a sub-compact, if they went by dimensions (although weight would make that tough).

[Diesel]

If Mitsu really will go out of business, who is going to service the EVO 8 that are selling in the US ? That's the only thing in my mind when I read this piece of news.