Confessions of a Car Salesman

[Joker]

This is a must read for anyone buying a new car!!!
It is a bit long, but well worth the read, and ultimately will save you a lot of money!
Please take the time to read it all :)

What really goes on in the back rooms of car dealerships across America?

What does the car salesman do when he leaves you sitting in a sales office and goes to talk with his boss?

What are the tricks salespeople use to increase their profit and how can consumers protect themselves from overpaying?

These were the questions we, the editors at Edmunds.com, wanted to answer for our readers. But how could they really know that our information was accurate and up-to-date? Finally, we came up with the idea of hiring an investigative reporter to work in the industry and experience, firsthand, the life of a car salesman.

We hired Chandler Phillips, a veteran journalist, to go undercover by working at two new car dealerships in the Los Angeles area. First, he would work at a high-volume, high-pressure dealership selling Japanese cars. Then, he'd change over to a smaller car lot that sold domestic cars at "no haggle" prices.

We invite you to read the following account of Phillips' day-to-day experience on the car lots. Doing so will broaden your understanding of the dealership sales process. It will also cast a new light on the role of the car salesman. And, finally, it will help you get a better deal — and avoid hidden charges — the next time you go to buy or lease a new car.

Read, learn and enjoy.

— The editors at Edmunds.com

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html?tid=edmunds.a.landing.buying..4.*

[larchmont]

Yes. I read that a while ago. A long read but worth it.
Extremely interesting.

I remember that I disagreed with some of the things that are presented as fact. Like, that anybody who walks into a dealership is as much of a potential buyer as anyone else even if they say they're not; and that it's not good for a salesman to just leave a customer alone to look around, he needs to keep talking to him. (At least I think it says those things.) Neither of these things is a main point of the article, but I did notice that in passing it says a few things that are debatable at best.

[Joker]

Yes, a great read indeed! In fact, I was up until 1:30am reading it, as I couldn't stop!!
The two situations you brought up were actually what they were taught as salesmen. Whether it is an actual fact or not, it is more of a tactic to get people into a new car.
As he stated, it can be very effective, yet also very annoying.

[GRAYTSX]

I read that awhile ago and it IS very interesting.

Has anyone seen the movie "Suckers".

[Ray]

I started reading it, so far very interesting. Hopefully will finish reading it later today. :D

[larchmont]

Originally posted by GRAYTSX
.....Has anyone seen the movie "Suckers".
I never heard of it http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14837 but I think I should have.


Let's see.....

"How can you help but love a movie that starts with a title card reading, "This shit's true..."

Detailing the wacky misadventures over a month on the job at an auto dealership, apparently car sales is a far nuttier career choice than anyone had imagined. In fact, it's downright vicious, especially the way it's done at South Side, where bossman Daniel Benzali (channeling Alec Baldwin's Glengarry Glen Ross character) is the kind of megalomaniacal nightmare you run into only in politics and Hollywood.

The salesmen all have their own curious stories that follow them on and off the job. One salesman has sex with a woman on a test drive and she steals the ride. Another deals with racism as he tries to get his sister out of Afghanistan. But mostly the movie follows Bobby (Louis Mandylor), who's in debt to loan sharks and takes the car sales job to please his wife Donna (Lori Laughlin). The front of the movie is enjoyable enough because it's a comedy -- watching the salesmen screw one customer after another out of his money. And it's totally believable (co-writer Joe Yanetty was once a car salesman). But by the midpoint, the film has devolved into a mob/smuggling/drug story, which is not only unbelievable, it's not interesting."


Thinking of changing my sig a little so it'll be what that title card says. :D

[GRAYTSX]

The movie is kind of bizzare. But a salesman recently told me that old school dealers really do use tactics like they did in the movie.
No one has this movie for rent. I got an import version cheap from ebay.

Oh, and Larch, you SHOULD use that phrase in your sig. http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14837

[larchmont]

Hey Gray, how do you like my new avatar? :jump:



Don't worry, won't keep it too long. Ultimately it has to be just GrayTSX's trademark.

[GRAYTSX]

Hey Gray, how do you like my new avatar? :jump:



Don't worry, won't keep it too long. Ultimately it has to be just GrayTSX's trademark.

I haven't been on here in about a week. If you're talking about the whipping smilies you had before, I didn't mind. I share.

Now if you're talking about Beavis, here's another one for you....

[larchmont]

No no, Gray, not in the eye! In my nose would be cool, in my mouth and my ears, yeah yeah heh heh yeah that would be cool, even maybe in my..... :banned:


One of the best moments was when they were in Mr. Van Driesen's class, and the camera goes off them for a couple of seconds, and when it comes back to them, they have pencils in every imaginable facial orifice.

[TSX 'R' US]

Ah yes...Larchmont...the Great Cornholio...
TP For your bunghole? :D

http://home.planet.nl/~lakka000/Funstuff/bb/Images/anibeavis.gif

[larchmont]

Ah yes...Larchmont...the Great Cornholio...
TP For your bunghole? :D

http://home.planet.nl/~lakka000/Funstuff/bb/Images/anibeavis.gif
Yes, one of the all-time greats.


Some lines:


"How come we're going to Stewart's house?" "'Cuz I heard he's got diarrhea."


"Is Beavis having a problem that I should know about?"


"That's strange, I just read about a study that says sugar isn't supposed to cause hyperactivity."


"Señor Beavis! Donde esta tu hallpass?"


(Aren't you glad you asked?)

[xgastudios]

WOW what a great read! Just has to make you think.....

Thanks for the great link Joker.

Matt

[Joker]

Thanks for the great link Joker.
Thanks Matt! :D
Joker - who is glad you liked it :thumbsup:

[johnej]

has anyone else read this. I did and found it interesting.

[KIYOSHIS_CL7]

Im a car salesman if anyone needs advise let me know. (Im from fresno by the way california)

[larchmont]

Im a car salesman if anyone needs advise let me know. (Im from fresno by the way california)
Great to have you -- BTW is it Acuras that you sell?

P.S. If you feel like saying anything about some of the things in that story, it might be interesting........

[rayyu882]

It is an interesting story, I haven't finish reading yet but some of the things in it aren't true everywhere though!

I was a car salesman before in a Acura and a Honda store, now I'm a part owner of a dealership.

More comments later on!

[larchmont]

It is an interesting story, I haven't finish reading yet but some of the things in it aren't true everywhere though!
I was a car salesman before in a Acura and a Honda store, now I'm a part owner of a dealership.
More comments later on!
Looking forward to them!

Of course those things aren't true everywhere, and we're glad about it.
For one thing, I would have walked out of any dealership where it was like that.

[rayyu882]

This is a very enjoyable article, it pointed out lots of good and bad things about car dealerships.

I must say that there are dealerships that are high pressure, which in their books there is no such thing as be-back customer, the moment you walk out of those dealership, they don't expect you to return, therefore they will hit you with all tricks that they know how before you leaves. Some of them even keep your trade-in car key and refuse to return it to you for a long while just to try to make a customer give up and make a deal happen.

However there are dealerships that are much more easy going, off course they still need to generate their profit, but the way that they do to get it will be so different, as the article pointed out, they have less management involved in the deal, it won't have that many processes a salesmen need to follow thru. The key to those dealership is referals and return customers, which many cases it works pretty well... If you have a wonderful car buying experience, you definitely will share that with your families & friends, and parhaps buy your next car from the salesman that you trusted the most.

[larchmont]

Of course I lean toward the latter.
It's the only kind of place I would ever do business with, in ANY field (unless somehow there was no choice).

There ARE both kinds of dealerships, and maybe it varies somewhat by the community.
I don't think the 1st kind would do well right here where I am, for example.
In other places nearby, including Manhattan, maybe it's a different story.

[TSXFreerider]

Alright, I read the first page of this post and nothing else so excuse me if I repost any other ideas. I had a brief (3 month) stint as a new car salesman a couple of years ago at a local Toyota dealership here in Cincinnati. After working there I understood what everyone meant when they talked about how all car salesmen are "shiesters". I saw plenty of underhanded tactics there....nothing technically "illegal", but most salesmen there would openly lie to you knowing that you wouldn't find out the truth until it was too late (or so it would seem). Salespeople will tell you whatever you want to hear in order to get you to want to buy the car. The actual selling of the car is handled by the finance manager (who gets their own commission based on their own sales). They're always going to quote you more than what the salesperson quoted and then tell you that it's because of a credit descrepancy. ALWAYS.....ALWAYS secure credit for the vehicle prior to the purchase if possible. Doing this will almost always save you money! The only time this doesn't apply is when dealer incentives are invloved. Just make sure that the terms are the same (early payoff ok, etc.). All dealerships are different so use the internet to your advantage. Get quotes from as may dealerships as possible and then use those quotes to get them to try to beat each other. The more resources you have, the better your chances at getting a good deal on a new car are! Hope this helps everyone out!

[TSX 'R' US]

^^ :thumbsup:

[Joker]

^^ :thumbsup:
Agreed, great reply TSXFreerider :thumbsup:

[raheel616]

very interesting

[larchmont]

Yes it is.
It's a great read, if you have a few extra hours. :D
(Not quite that long, but it does take some time.)

[ralphymacchio]

Why don't they make a "Confessions of Frank Carney" article. To get inside the mind of the man who founded Pizza Hut.

I say this because, people view dealerships as being evil empires built on the foundations of corruption and deception. Where salesmen and managers highfive eachother when they send a customer home after making a profit on them.

***NEWS FLASH***

Dealerships were formed to make money.Thats right! just like every other retail business in the world. You and I, "the consumers" are the ones that make the car purchasing process harder than it should be. If everyone based their purchasing decision on customer service alone, alot more cars would roll at sticker price. Since that isnt the case, and hasn't been for eons, we now resort to negotiations...

If you really want a "no hassle" car buying experience, then save up for a car you can afford and purchase it, at the sticker price. WAIT?? whats that?? Im crazy?? maybe so, but the worst thing in the world is, a consumer who suggests that a dealership isn't giving them the "Best Price" or enough of a discount <--what is that??... Incase anyone is wondering, their is no Best price book, hidden in the bottom left drawer of a sales managers desk. The best price is the price the dealer is willing to sell the car for and the price you are willing to pay.

back to Frank Carney. Why do I bring his name up in this?? Simple.. how often do you use coupons on your pizza hut pizzas?? for me, I'd say 1 out of 3 times. Have you ever called and handed the coupon to the girl and said this coupon isn't enough of a disount for me?? probably not..
Frank Carney makes roughly 400% profit when you buy a pizza from a Pizza Hut. If you buy a 35000 dollar car for $500 over invoice, the dealership is making ..... you guessed it 2% profit.

If people would stop looking at the bottom line and start taking into account how close the dealer is to them, how nice the service dept is, how well they were treated during the sales process and how much they can actually afford... they will find that buying a car can actually be enjoyable like it should be. Instead, some (not all) will cut another dealers throat for a set of splash guards and spend 80 bucks on gas to drive 200 miles out of the way, to get the car from a dealer who only views them as a chip on a board, nothing more, nothing less....... you figure it out.....

Sorry if this offended anyone, but when you deal with this day in and day out. It becomes your reality. Cheers - Dave

[Revenent]

A few of points:

1. While the percentage profit may be lower, the actual dollar amount we're dealing with aren't exactly the same level as a pizza pie.

2. Talking in general, when a pizza place makes a mistake on a pizza, the customer can complain and get the correct order with no extra charge. When a car salesperson says something wrong and the customer buys the car on that mistaken impression, the customer legally has almost no say.

3. A pizza is a one-shot deal - you buy it, you eat it, it's finished. You buy a car for the long-term (at least a few magnitudes longer than a pizza). This makes the investment that many magnitudes larger as well.

Just my thoughts. :)

[ralphymacchio]

A few of points:

1. While the percentage profit may be lower, the actual dollar amount we're dealing with aren't exactly the same level as a pizza pie.

average person buys a car every 4 years, same person buys about 1 pizzas a week... retail cost of pizza $12 x 400% profit = $48 profit 4 years x 52 weeks in year = 208 weeks x $48 =

Pizza Hut making $9,984 profit on you.... your right, big difference in dollar amount..

2. Talking in general, when a pizza place makes a mistake on a pizza, the customer can complain and get the correct order with no extra charge. When a car salesperson says something wrong and the customer buys the car on that mistaken impression, the customer legally has almost no say.

If a dealership delivers a car and something is wrong with it, they fix it, just like a messed up pizza order is fixed, at no charge. Infact the car would be better in this instance since it has a warranty, if you eat the pizza and get really sick from it, the pizza place isnt going to cover your medical bills, are they? Information given from a salesperson to a customer is just that info, just like edmunds.com its info, not everything they post on their site is fact, but its up to the consumer to determine what they feel is the facts. I never claimed there arent crooked salespeople out there, infact I believe in one of my first sentences i talk about a salesman telling my friend she cant afford the insurance on a car...

3. A pizza is a one-shot deal - you buy it, you eat it, it's finished. You buy a car for the long-term (at least a few magnitudes longer than a pizza). This makes the investment that many magnitudes larger as well.

True a pizza is a one-shot-deal but so is any purchase, you dont continue to purchase anything. granted the pizza is a consumable item, but that wasnt the point I was making. Noone thinks twice about paying retail for a toothbrush at stop and shop, or a tv at walmart, or anything else for that matter, but with cars, they want a better price than retail. Which is fine, because thats how the system is, and if it wasnt that way, then I wouldnt have a job. All I'm saying is, stop getting mad at salespeople for trying to retain some sort of profit on a new car sale, it shouldnt come as a surprise, but in order for a dealership to stay open, they need to make money on the cars they sell. As far as the lousy cheap coat salesmen lying through their teeth and telling people their 95 Cadillac Eldorado will get 40 miles to the gallon, well they obviously have an even more lousy manager who isnt getting rid of them. Times are changing and those guys will soon be gone, but my only advice to all, is buy from a place you feel comfortable buying from. A car is a huge investment and where you buy it and who you buy it from should matter to you, not just the price. The saying you get what you pay for holds true even in buying a car.

:spin:
Just my thoughts. :)

[ralphymacchio]

Alright, I read the first page of this post and nothing else so excuse me if I repost any other ideas. I had a brief (3 month) stint as a new car salesman a couple of years ago at a local Toyota dealership here in Cincinnati. After working there I understood what everyone meant when they talked about how all car salesmen are "shiesters". I saw plenty of underhanded tactics there....nothing technically "illegal", but most salesmen there would openly lie to you knowing that you wouldn't find out the truth until it was too late (or so it would seem). Salespeople will tell you whatever you want to hear in order to get you to want to buy the car. The actual selling of the car is handled by the finance manager (who gets their own commission based on their own sales). They're always going to quote you more than what the salesperson quoted and then tell you that it's because of a credit descrepancy. ALWAYS.....ALWAYS secure credit for the vehicle prior to the purchase if possible. Doing this will almost always save you money! The only time this doesn't apply is when dealer incentives are invloved. Just make sure that the terms are the same (early payoff ok, etc.). All dealerships are different so use the internet to your advantage. Get quotes from as may dealerships as possible and then use those quotes to get them to try to beat each other. The more resources you have, the better your chances at getting a good deal on a new car are! Hope this helps everyone out!

in a "brief (3 month) stint as a new car salesman" you really shouldnt of been taking any clients, if you were, then that says alot about the dealership you were working for. If you weren't then you should of been training.

"Get quotes from as may dealerships as possible and then use those quotes to get them to try to beat each other."

So, you mean to tell me the Salesmen are the "shiesters" ? funny because reading that last line, made the customer seem pretty shiesty.. So you spend all day with a knowledgible salesman, he provides you with a good walkaround and explaination of the car, he gives you a discount on the car and you turn around and cut his throat over 100 dollars? <sarcasm> Anyone that would do that is an awfully nice person, I must admit. </sarcasm>

[rawdizzle]

For me dealer reputation is worth more than saving every last penny.

When negotiating I go for broke, No pain no gain is my motto, if my salesman is sweating I know im doing good.. Actually I try to push as hard as I can to see what my options are.

Ps.- Ralphy- Where's my Aspec package you promised. you know I still havent got that survey filled out yet

- Pizzas can make 400% profit because after all they are only 10.00
imagine a 30,000 pizza with 400% profit. now you can see why people dont want to pay a dime over invoice.. we all know that dealers have holdback and whatnot, so just sell the car @ invoice and let Acura pay what they deem apporpriate to the sales people. this way the salesperson doesnt have a headache and the buyer doesnt feel like he's getting takin over. But the world isnt perfect, at least my TSX is...

VTEC powa




:ben: :slap: :slap:

[ralphymacchio]

well, just for the record, salespeople dont get paid on the holdback.

thanks for making me sweat. and for the good survey youre gonna give me. bitchazz

now dump that thing.

[shay654]

I gotta read this when I have time! Sounds IN-TER-ES-TING! I like to get into people's heads and see what makes them TICK! hehe :grinno:

[hoOnzABPtsX]

i read this before I got my TSX and it definitely gave me a lot of insight into the car sales industry. A must read

[Linda S]

Just read the article..interesting that he says he thinks the dealership should make a profit...and almost immediately he says 16% profit on a $25000 car is too much, that it meant the buyer paid $4000 too much. Guess what, folks, 16% of $25000 is $4000...so I wonder where the dealership was supposed to make the profit on that sale.

Yes, my dh was in the biz, he didn't work like the ones described in the article & he would never buy a car from dealers who pull the pressure bit. He also knows there is no such thing as a No-Haggle price if you have a trade-in. But I can tell you since he retired & we've bought, he does let the salesman sit awhile while he goes out to talk with me, kinda giving back what they give to him.

Yes, we do alot of research on the internet & we know what to expect as far as pricing is concerned...but we do not begrudge a dealership a profit. He never got rich and no one will get rich off us. We are not impulse buyers, or we try not to be. Buyers remorse is a horrible disease, but easily caught because of America's infatuation w/cars.

Just bought a red TSX AT...drives like a dream. It will be our last car unless we win the lottery...if that happens, I'll go back for an RL. We paid $26550 + tax. The dealer provided pin stripes, a trunk tray & wheel locks. We talked with several dealers, but spent a few dollars more to buy at home.

Happy trails....Linda S

[shay654]

^^^^ IN-TER-ES-TING! Thanks for the insight! And congrats and welcome! :thumbsup:

[speed3master]

ralphymacchio

"If people would stop looking at the bottom line and start taking into account how close the dealer is to them, how nice the service dept is, how well they were treated during the sales process and how much they can actually afford... they will find that buying a car can actually be enjoyable like it should be. Instead, some (not all) will cut another dealers throat for a set of splash guards and spend 80 bucks on gas to drive 200 miles out of the way, to get the car from a dealer who only views them as a chip on a board, nothing more, nothing less....... you figure it out.....

Sorry if this offended anyone, but when you deal with this day in and day out. It becomes your reality. Cheers - Dave"

Now that’s an excellent statement, and it should not offend anyone.
When I checked into the dealer from where I got my TSX, these were exactly the facts I factored in before making the purchase. It took over three weeks from my initial visit before I drove out with the new car.
The dealer is awarded 6 times by Acura’s precision team, and they are located only ten minutes from my residence. Their price was right; beside the TSX was a lot less than the Lexus EX-350, my initial target.
I know I can go there with full confidence for the services.

So far, a happy camper…

[Warder45]

So what is the deal with the fleet manager? In the article it mentions that people where buying their car's through them online.

I don't mind giving the dealership some profit, I just don't like dealing with the sales people. If I can get a price thats fair and just show up to pick up the car, I'd be happy.

[Red TSX]

anyone know which dealership this is at?