Test Driving Once Again

[eljefe68]

No, I am not looking to replace my TSX, no way. The car to go will be my wife's 2004 Passat, and its potential departure is due to our second boy coming in September. We shudder at the thought of squeezing in that car with two car seats and all the other kid stuff.

That said, what is an enthusiast to do? Sure, the Odyssey is well regarded for driving dynamics, but it is still a freakin' van. We don't have any huge camper or boat to tow, so a full size SUV and the 11mpg that goes along with such a rig is out. Enter the crossover.

A crossover just may become the new pariah-like symbol of mommy-dom, but for now one could give the enthusiast in the family a little joy when at the helm. The vehicle I checked out yesterday was a Mazda CX-9, since I have read quite a bit about the CX-9 having some of that Zoom Zoom joie de vie Mazda likes to put in their cars.

I checked out both the mid-grade Touring and top-line Gran Touring trim levels. Esthetically, I find the CX-9 pleasing. Sure, the exterior is not manly truckville, but it does have a nice flow to it, and the Gran Touring's 20" wheels give a little bling factor. I found the interior especially nice with the sweeping downward wood accents on the doors and dash, the piano black accents on the dash and steering wheel, and the accent color insets in the seats. Navigation, moonroof, and RES are all options on Touring and Gran Touring; however, Navigation requires bundling of the moonroof or RES, which makes it a $4K to $5K pill.

Functionally, the ergonomics seemed good with no egregious violations leaping out to me during my inspection. I was impressed by the one handed access to the third row - you simply pull a handle on the side of the rear seat back, and the whole seat slides forward while the seat back folds forward.

Out on the road in the flatness and straightness that is southeast Texas, the CX-9 felt controlled and composed. It was quiet, but there was a tautness to the suspension and body motions that made me wish I was back in NorCal where I could have properly checked out the suspension. Also noteworthy was the transmission, a 6 speed manumatic. In full automatic, shifts were barely noticeable if at all, and in manual mode, the shifts were similarly smooth. Mazda goes the BMW route on this, in that you push forward to downshift and pull back to upshift.

The motor was not so impressive. Sure, the 3.5L V6 was smooth, but it didn't feel all that powerful. Maybe I was being too conservative with Ahmed the salesman in the car, but I could swear I gave it my foot at least one good time with not much of a result. Maybe that is why I am catching wind of a 3.7L motor for 2008.

In sum, the CX-9 presents an appealing option for families in need of seven seat space. Of course, it is in no way a sports car or even a sports sedan, but it does offer a more sporty dynamic than the likes of a Highlander (my parents have one - yawn).

[narci]

Owned a mazda and will never own another one. (MX3 V6)

Parts are $$$, right up there with BMW/Mercedes.

Quality on midterm usage...this is what was wrong with the car when I traded it in... 90K km.

- each of the sparkplug holes had oil in them when I removed the plugs.
- rear disc brakes siezed.
- sheet metal became rippleded (if you look at any MX3, the rear quarter panal, the long swooping one gets rippled in effect, it's almost like there's alot of pressure being places on that panel).
- paint is thinner then hair.

Don't even get me started on the service.

[eljefe68]

Since the MX-3 has been out of production for going on 10 years now, I would want to know what year your car was. I myself had a 94 Probe GT with the Mazda 2.5L V6, and I experienced leaking valve covers a couple of times which caused spark plug fouling. However, your other issues strike me as endemic to the kind of inexpensive car the MX3 was, i.e., sheet metal and paint issues. As for the service issues, are you speaking about your local Mazda dealer or Mazda corporate?

I respect your experience and would find it valid if I were checking out an MX3, but to base your opinion on the company's current status and a completely new model off an older, different model is a non sequitur. To be sure, it would be wise of anyone to check out reliability reports and owner experiences on a specific car model, but 10 years is enough time for an automaker to take steps to improve quality and product.

To that end, I found the CX-9 very solid feeling. Driving on the extremely bumpy roads here produced no quivers, squeaks, or rattles. If and when I am around one again, I will be sure to give the body panels a push.

[narci]

It was a 1994 new mazda mx-3. I looked at alot of mx-3's on the road and almost 99% of them have the ripple problem in the back panel. It looks like waves in the paint.

The previous gen RX7 has huge sheetmetal problems. Couple of my friends had one and they said, literally, if you lean against the car or the hood, it'll dent in.

I use to work in a garage and some of the repiar bills for mazda parts scare me. A 323 came in to fix a bumper. There are 2 foam pieces that hold the bumper in shape at the corners. Each small foam piece was $100..yes for 2 pieces of white foam.

I tried to find some cheaper aftermarket parts for my mx-3. PCV valve? Nope, none. Had to buy it from Mazda. Cost? $25. Had to buy a fuel filter as well. Aftermarket? None. Mazda cost, $75.

I had my gripes with the dealership, and corporate. Went as far as setting up a meeting with a couple of people at the corporate head office in TO when it was at Kennedy and Sheppard.

My beef was someone scratched the front of my car. It turns out there's red paint underneath the silver paint. The dealer gave me run arounds and eventually I had to speak with the corporate office. I wanted a simple question asked. Why is my bumper originally red. The corporate guys told me they were allowed, to a creatin degree/cost, to replace parts on a new car and sell it as new. For some reason they would not tell me, my car had front bumper damage new before I bought it. Since my 1994 was a new small facelift year, and silver was the newest color, they said they did not have any 1994 bumpersd so they took it off a red one and repainted it silver. I didn't get anywhere else with that as it was dragged on for months on end.

While I agree that 10 years later, the company may have a better product, but the experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

[asterix101]

Check also 2008 Subaru Tribeca. Mnjami boxer engine. European version is however a bit different then US.

[eljefe68]

It was a 1994 new mazda mx-3. I looked at alot of mx-3's on the road and almost 99% of them have the ripple problem in the back panel. It looks like waves in the paint.

The previous gen RX7 has huge sheetmetal problems. Couple of my friends had one and they said, literally, if you lean against the car or the hood, it'll dent in.

I use to work in a garage and some of the repiar bills for mazda parts scare me. A 323 came in to fix a bumper. There are 2 foam pieces that hold the bumper in shape at the corners. Each small foam piece was $100..yes for 2 pieces of white foam.

I tried to find some cheaper aftermarket parts for my mx-3. PCV valve? Nope, none. Had to buy it from Mazda. Cost? $25. Had to buy a fuel filter as well. Aftermarket? None. Mazda cost, $75.

I had my gripes with the dealership, and corporate. Went as far as setting up a meeting with a couple of people at the corporate head office in TO when it was at Kennedy and Sheppard.

My beef was someone scratched the front of my car. It turns out there's red paint underneath the silver paint. The dealer gave me run arounds and eventually I had to speak with the corporate office. I wanted a simple question asked. Why is my bumper originally red. The corporate guys told me they were allowed, to a creatin degree/cost, to replace parts on a new car and sell it as new. For some reason they would not tell me, my car had front bumper damage new before I bought it. Since my 1994 was a new small facelift year, and silver was the newest color, they said they did not have any 1994 bumpersd so they took it off a red one and repainted it silver. I didn't get anywhere else with that as it was dragged on for months on end.

While I agree that 10 years later, the company may have a better product, but the experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

Thanks for giving me more background, as I can truly understand where you are coming from now. I would have a bad taste in my mouth, too.

[eljefe68]

Check also 2008 Subaru Tribeca. Mnjami boxer engine. European version is however a bit different then US.

The Tribeca is an interesting beast. The interior is very nice, and at least they got rid of the weird Alfa-esque nose. Also intriguing is the new motor - I have read the connecting rods are asymmetrical - the car mags here have said it is a good improvement over the previous engine.

For my needs, however, I will probably not check it out. If I still lived in Northern California, it would be on my list - skiing is three hours away there. But here in southeastern Texas, an extremely flat, hot and sticky humid place, the AWD of a Subie just means just increased fuel consumption. I am living that right now with my wife's VW - a 1.8T 4Motion Passat.

[nj2pa2nc]

Owned a mazda and will never own another one. (MX3 V6)

Parts are $$$, right up there with BMW/Mercedes.

Quality on midterm usage...this is what was wrong with the car when I traded it in... 90K km.

- each of the sparkplug holes had oil in them when I removed the plugs.
- rear disc brakes siezed.
- sheet metal became rippleded (if you look at any MX3, the rear quarter panal, the long swooping one gets rippled in effect, it's almost like there's alot of pressure being places on that panel).
- paint is thinner then hair.

Don't even get me started on the service.
we owned a 1991 mazda mx-6 gt (turbo)bought new Oct. 1991. When we sold it last year for $5,000 it had 250,000+miles with the original turbo,engine transmission, clutch and ran excellant. The person who bought it had it repainted (I agree the paint was not the best but it was never garaged) and the seat covers replaced (nothing mechanically) They love the car. Our next car is either the mazdaspeed 3 or 6 (we will keep the tsx)

[narci]

we owned a 1991 mazda mx-6 gt (turbo)bought new Oct. 1991. When we sold it last year for $5,000 it had 250,000+miles with the original turbo,engine transmission, clutch and ran excellant. The person who bought it had it repainted (I agree the paint was not the best but it was never garaged) and the seat covers replaced (nothing mechanically) They love the car. Our next car is either the mazdaspeed 3 or 6 (we will keep the tsx)

Alot of the older Mazda turbo cars were pretty good...especially the rare 323 AWD Turbo that cost an arm and a leg brand new.

I guess Mazda's saving grace would be the Miata. If it weren't for the Miata, they wouldn't be where they are now.

I'd stay away from the Mazdaspeed3, that much power in a car has a a FWD drivetrain is just stupidity. As well, I was reading over at the forums that there was a recall on the engine or tranny mounts that causes the engine to drop out of the engine bay.

[eljefe68]

I went on my test driving ways again today, and, rather than start a new boring thread for y'all, I will hijack my own. My stop today: Honda.

I would say it was a very productive session, since I went there to check out both an Odyssey EX-L w/NAV & RES and a FWD Pilot EX-L w/NAV. Yeah, I looked at an Odyssey, because the inner logical man was telling me "it has more space and gets better gas mileage." The one I saw was Slate Green with the Olive interior; the Slate Green is decent, but the Olive is kinda weird. It is not like 1970s olive green, but more a gray tinged with olive green. Of course, it does have a tremendous amount of space inside and plenty of family friendly features, but I could I get over my van heebie jeebies?

Short answer: No. The suspension was feeling pleasantly firm, didn't give it much life. It just felt rather ponderous, and the engine felt sapped out by the weight of the rig. Lastly, I could hear squeaks coming from the back, which would drive me nuts in the long run. Whew! I can put a van out of my head.

Next up was the Pilot. The EX-L Sergio the LA expatriate brought out had the RES and was Black with Grey interior. Definitely not as spacious as the Odyssey, though getting into the third row is a one handed action ala the CX-9. Not as much cargo space as the CX-9 with the 3rd seat up, but I see us with a third row stowed until the car seats come out in whatever vehicle we end up with.

Behind the wheel, it was strange to grab a column shifter in something other than a big old 'merican rig, but I was able to find a comfortable position quickly. Where the Odyssey felt big, the Pilot actually felt light, dare I say fun to drive. The suspension was nice and composed, the steering precise, and the motor felt strong in the Pilot. The old Pilot even felt better than the new CX-9.

The only demerits I can think of for it is that column shifter, non-illuminated steering wheel controls, and no NAV and RES together. The Pilot just moved to the top of my potentials list, but I just wonder what Honda has in store for the 2009.

[AcidLotus]

We have an 05 pilot and love it. Gas mileage at 18 around town is not great, but on the highway I've had 30+ mpg, which is practically unheard of in an SUV, and not even a Pilot EPA estimate. It takes good old regular unleaded too, so a fill up at Costco isn't bad.

[04whitetsx]

RDX or NIssan Small SUV or TRibeca is good.

I heard MAZDA has some expensive parts.

[eljefe68]

RDX or NIssan Small SUV or TRibeca is good.

I heard MAZDA has some expensive parts.

The wife has the call out for a third row, so the RDX and the new Nissan are out. I probably will go drive a Tribeca, but I am favoring better fuel mileage (FWD) over traction (AWD).

[ians]

I used to own a Mazda 03 626ES & my brother owned the 05 Probe GT. Both were basically the same car, however, my Mazda had way way better build quality and aging a lot better too. Yes, it still had lot of problem when compare to a Honda/Toyota but already way ahead of German. And the local dealer were quite helpful too. On one of a Sat afternoon, my 626 suddenly has the muffler & cat broken into 2 piece, so I drove to a dealer and they supposed to close in 5 min but they willing to fix it for me immediately (under warranty and my car was lowered by 2"!) So I am quite impress with their service. Also 1 of my very close friend got a Mazda3 GT for almost 4 yr now and is still very solid with only some minor issues. BTW, I agree with Narci, Mazda parts are expensive! They use quality parts. However, Toyota is on another extreme... very cheap parts but with good engineering & QC, they able to use cheap parts to build quality cars. Well... at least that what I learn from school 20yr ago. Toyota was always the benchmark on QC case study.

[eljefe68]

I used to own a Mazda 03 626ES & my brother owned the 05 Probe GT. Both were basically the same car, however, my Mazda had way way better build quality and aging a lot better too. Yes, it still had lot of problem when compare to a Honda/Toyota but already way ahead of German. And the local dealer were quite helpful too. On one of a Sat afternoon, my 626 suddenly has the muffler & cat broken into 2 piece, so I drove to a dealer and they supposed to close in 5 min but they willing to fix it for me immediately (under warranty and my car was lowered by 2"!) So I am quite impress with their service. Also 1 of my very close friend got a Mazda3 GT for almost 4 yr now and is still very solid with only some minor issues. BTW, I agree with Narci, Mazda parts are expensive! They use quality parts. However, Toyota is on another extreme... very cheap parts but with good engineering & QC, they able to use cheap parts to build quality cars. Well... at least that what I learn from school 20yr ago. Toyota was always the benchmark on QC case study.

Just too bad that Toyota is boooooooooring. Good for my parents, but not for me.

[asterix101]

If you want better gas mileage try the Subaru Outback or "softer" Legacy. Those cars are very reliable. It's most likely your Subaru will last longer then you will ;)

[ians]

Just too bad that Toyota is boooooooooring. Good for my parents, but not for me.

that's why I am driving a Honda :p

[eljefe68]

that's why I am driving a Honda :p
:sprint: