Deadly weapons make a comeback

[Joker]

A ban on military-style assault weapons in the United States is to lapse on Monday, prompting accusations that President Bush has deliberately sought not to have it renewed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3646486.stm

[Joker]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- John Kerry is criticizing President Bush for letting a decade-long ban on assault weapons expire while unveiling his own $5 billion plan to fight crime and picking up a police union endorsement.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/13/kerry.monday.ap/index.html

[TSX 'R' US]

AR-15 here I come!!!














j/k :D

[Joker]

AR-15 here I come!!!
I used to own a Colt AR-15 Paratrooper Model, and that is an AWESOME riffle :thumbsup:

[larchmont]

Incredible.

Even though everybody points out that the ban was "badly flawed," it was a lot better than nothing.

If you don't believe that, how about the fact that all the living ex-presidents (except Daddy) begged Bush to get it renewed?

And virtually every police department too.

[Noel]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40058000/jpg/_40058734_assault-rifle-ap203.jpg

I'd settle for a Glock. :thumbsup:

[TSX 'R' US]

I used to own a Colt AR-15 Paratrooper Model, and that is an AWESOME riffle :thumbsup:
don't have it anymore?

[TSX 'R' US]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40058000/jpg/_40058734_assault-rifle-ap203.jpg

I'd settle for a Glock. :thumbsup:
which one? I almost got a Glock 17... very nice piece :nod:

[bob shiftright]

Even though everybody points out that the ban was "badly flawed," it was a lot better than nothing.How????

The same way that giving somebody dying of cancer a placebo is "better than nothing"?

It didn't outlaw any guns. All it did was outlaw certain gun features, such as a bayonet lug. Since the last big bayonet charge in American History was at the Battle of New Orleans (1814-1815), pardon me if I don't sleep any less soundly tonight!

http://shs.westport.k12.ct.us/jwb/AP/Images/BattNOrleans.jpg

(Jackson's riflemen didn't use bayonets, BTW, and we still won!)

[Noel]

which one? I almost got a Glock 17... very nice piece :nod:

Glock 32 or 64 if I'm not wrong, quite a small piece. Or the SWAT standard issue Colt 1911 would be ideal.

[Joker]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40058000/jpg/_40058734_assault-rifle-ap203.jpg
Pictured is the Norinco AK-47

[Joker]

don't have it anymore?
No, as I did not register it before the ban :(

[TSX 'R' US]

No, as I did not register it before the ban :(
DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Joker]

DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tell me about it :(

[larchmont]

.....It didn't outlaw any guns. All it did was outlaw certain gun features.....
Doesn't that amount to the same thing?

And if it wasn't something worthwhile, how do you account for the fact that every living ex-president except Daddy implored Bush to push for it, plus that so many major police departments pushed for it?

Larchmont, who doesn't think Bob has a good answer to this (for once). :D

[bob shiftright]

Doesn't that amount to the same thing?

And if it wasn't....that every living ex-president except Daddy implored Bush to push for it....

That would be Mr. Carter, Mr Ford, and Mr. Clinton....

Why am I not surprised?

...plus that so many major police departments pushed for it?

I would expect that. Just because of what they do, if it were possible to outlaw bullets they'd be all in favor of that!

Waaaay back when when I lived in Wisconsin, I was amazed to learn that the way you could buy a gun was to go into a store and hand the clerk a credit card. So I was considering a Colt AR15 (the civilian M16) except one of my colleagues, a bona-fide gun nut said: "Nooooooo! Do NOT buy one of those! If the police ever need to go to your house and find it, they're gonna think you're crazy! Buy a Ruger Mini 14. It looks just like a hunting rifle."

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/35L.gif

Ruger Mini 14 "Ranch Rifle"

This does everything that an "Assault Weapon" does, except look ugly. True, it doesn't have a bayonet lug, a pistol grip, or a flash suppressor. Which are the features that define an "Assault Weapon".

BTW, if your man Kerry really owns an AK47 (as he claimd to in front of gun groups), he is in violation of a variety off federal and state laws. The AK47 is a completely illegal weapon, and it was illegal before the "Assault Weapons" bill.

Classification of assault-style weapons, being based on mostly cosmetic characteristics, has proven extremely difficult since there is no functional difference between the types of firearms targeted for these bans and many very common hunting and target-shooting firearms. By any measure, caliber, rate of fire, accurate range, ease of use, magazine capacity, etc. these so-called "assault-style weapons" are identical in function to countless other firearms. Thus, the only way to specify a ban that only bans the intended firearms is to do so by cosmetics or model name/number, those being the only real differences. In response, when a weapon is banned as an assault weapon, the manufacturer simply makes the required cosmetic changes to its physical appearance which render it legal again. In response to that, some laws banning assault weapons have been subjected to several revisions since they were first passed.

Or the TRIUMPH of form over substance....

The same way that giving somebody dying of cancer a placebo is "better than nothing"?

[bob shiftright]

http://www.ak-47.us/pic/WASR-10/WASR-10-001.jpghttp://www.ak-47.us/pic/WASR-10/WASR-10-002.jpg

Oh, and this is a Romanian WASR10 which was NOT an "Assault Weapon" under the BATF rules! (No bayonet lug or flash suppressor!)

[larchmont]

Skipping over all that mumbo jumbo about guns and placebos and cutting to the chase: :D

That would be Mr. Carter, Mr Ford, and Mr. Clinton....
Why am I not surprised?
Well, I'd say that's a pretty nice little cross-section. You mean you wouldn't??? :donno:


And three very responsible people, in every sense of the word.
OK, maybe you wouldn't count The Big Jerk in there, but that still leaves two very responsible people. :D


I really can't imagine what Bob meant with that dismissal.

It's a VERY powerful and meaningful statement that those three pushed for renewal of the ban.

[TSX 'R' US]

http://www.ak-47.us/pic/WASR-10/WASR-10-001.jpghttp://www.ak-47.us/pic/WASR-10/WASR-10-002.jpg

Oh, and this is a Romanian WASR10 which was NOT an "Assault Weapon" under the BATF rules! (No bayonet lug or flash suppressor!)
is that yours???

[TSX 'R' US]

I've got a Mosin Nagant M44 Carbine (forgot if it was Russian or Czech)... its got a bayonet too :nod:

I got it as a relic...since it was made in the 1940's. When I got it, it still had mud and soil all over it. It's got Russian markings on the wood etc. I ended up sanding it down and giving it a new finish. It looks pretty good now. The original Mosin Nagants had such a long barrel, that they were actually used as anti-aircraft guns!! :shock:

[larchmont]

.....Russian markings.....
Just like I said -- RUSSIA!

Uh, Jupiter? Saturn? :D

[TSX 'R' US]

Just like I said -- RUSSIA!

Uh, Jupiter? Saturn? :D
Druidia :D

[bob shiftright]

is that yours???Noooooooo! I MAY be crazy, but I see no point in advertising that fact to the police!

I'm a "Classic", John Browning kinda guy!

http://www.eyrie-productions.com/~gryphon/GFX/hpstand.jpg

[larchmont]

Well this is the only John Browning I ever knew of:


http://www.npr.org/programs/pt/4a/images/browning-right.jpg


Nothing there to ban. :D

[TSX 'R' US]

Noooooooo! I MAY be crazy, but I see no point in advertising that fact to the police!

I'm a "Classic", John Browning kinda guy!

http://www.eyrie-productions.com/~gryphon/GFX/hpstand.jpg
mmm...Browning... Browning Hi-Power :thumbsup:
Didn't they discontinue it?

[tony4311]

Arrives late to the thread.

I'm so glad this thing ended. So damn pointless and ineffective.
Did anyone buy anything new that was banned? I haven't yet but I'm going to be picking up a couple hi-cap mags for my ruger.

Skipping over all that mumbo jumbo about guns and placebos and cutting to the chase: :D



I think you really just skipped the point of the discussion really instead of responding to it

Hell it didn't even really outlaw anything. If you owned the parts or guns before the ban you could still legally own them so what purpose did it serve. The only people that could use them for anything illegal still bought them during the ban making it COMPLETELY pointless.

[bob shiftright]

mmm...Browning... Browning Hi-Power :thumbsup:
Didn't they discontinue it?Still listed on the Browning website. "Hi-Power Standard". They also sell a "Hi-Power Practical" and a "Hi-Power Mark III". I think the "Standard" is also known as the "Model 1935".

I chose the Hi-Power because it's been in production so long and represents such ubiquitous Colt-Browning technology that any gunsmith should be able to fix it, out until the end of time itself. In spite of what larch must think, I'm no gun-nut. This is just another survival tool, like the bottled water, the doxycycline and the duct tape.

During World War II, the Hi Power was the only pistol to see production on both sides: the Allies produced a version at Inglis, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, while the Germans contributed production at the occupied FN plant in Belgium. The British army adopted the Hi Power after the war, and production continued to increase as distribution ranged to more than 90 countries, including NATO.

http://www.browning.com/homepage/index.asp

[TSX 'R' US]

Still listed on the Browning website. "Hi-Power Standard". They also sell a "Hi-Power Practical" and a "Hi-Power Mark III". I think the "Standard" is also known as the "Model 1935".

I chose the Hi-Power because it's been in production so long and represents such ubiquitous Colt-Browning technology that any gunsmith should be able to fix it, out until the end of time itself. In spite of what larch must think, I'm no gun-nut. This is just another survival tool, like the bottled water, the doxycycline and the duct tape.

During World War II, the Hi Power was the only pistol to see production on both sides: the Allies produced a version at Inglis, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, while the Germans contributed production at the occupied FN plant in Belgium. The British army adopted the Hi Power after the war, and production continued to increase as distribution ranged to more than 90 countries, including NATO.

http://www.browning.com/homepage/index.asp
Awesome!! Yeah, the high-power is a great gun...nicely weighted... And not to mention alot of history behind it :thumbsup:
Though I'd like to get my hands on a Colt 1911...just like the ones Bruce Willis used in Last Man Standing :nod:

[HondaMan]

All I got to say is, right on Bob! :thumbsup:

[bob shiftright]

The Noooo Yawk Times has picked up on the story.

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/politics/campaign/index.html

(Scroll down to "More".)

In Magazine Interview, Kerry Says He Owns Assault Rifle

Senator John Kerry, a hunter who supported the recently expired assault weapons ban, frequently tells audiences he has never met anyone who wanted to use an AK-47 to shoot a deer. But it is not clear what Mr. Kerry does with the Chinese assault rifle he told Outdoor Life magazine he kept in his personal collection......

......Mr. Kerry's campaign would not say what model rifle Mr. Kerry was referring to, where he got it and when, or how many guns he owned. A spokesman for the senator, Michael Meehan, said Mr. Kerry was a registered gun owner in Massachusetts. On Thursday morning, Mr. Meehan said he had not been able to ask Mr. Kerry about the rifle because of Mr. Kerry's hoarse voice; he did not respond to further inquiries.

Andrew Arulanandam, a spokesman for the National Rifle Association - which has given Mr. Kerry "F" ratings throughout his career and backs Mr. Bush's re-election - said the Outdoor Life comment made Mr. Kerry's support of the assault weapons ban disingenuous.

"It's O.K. for John Kerry to own these kinds of firearms, but it's not O.K. for John Q. Public?" Mr. Arulanandam said, noting that if Mr. Kerry brought the gun home from the war as a souvenir he could be subject to court-martial. "He certainly owes people an explanation as to why there's a double standard."

Stephen P. Halbrook, a gun rights lawyer who has argued several cases before the Supreme Court, said the most common Chinese assault rifles, known as SKS clones, were not among the 19 models banned under the 1994 law. But some SKS's have magazines holding more than 10 rounds, which violates a Massachusetts law against large-capacity weapons, Mr. Halbrook said. If the gun is fully automatic, Mr. Halbrook said, it is illegal in Massachusetts and would require a federal permit if Mr. Kerry kept it at one of his homes in Pennsylvania and Idaho.

[bobdobbs]

I find it curious Kerry would use the phrase "assault rifle" to describe an SKS, if that's what he owns. I aso find it curious, but not surprising, this Halbrook character would attempt to confuse the issue by bringing up whether the gun is fully-automatic, because a typical SKS is not, unless it's malfunctioning or modified (which would be highly illegal). More likely, Kerry is talking about a semi-automatic Chinese AK-47, which fits the common conception of an "assault rifle."

At any rate, I doubt if we're going to find out the truth of the matter. :rolleyes:

[larchmont]

....."A spokesman for the senator, Michael Meehan....said he had not been able to ask Mr. Kerry about the rifle because of Mr. Kerry's hoarse voice...."
I don't think that's going to work as well as Reagan's helicopters.

[tony4311]

it really bugs the shit out of me when the antis bring up deer hunting for every weapon they talk about.


NO SHIT THEY DON'T GO DEER HUNTING WITH THEM ASSHOLE!!!!!!
They just don't seem to realize people just like to shoot the damn things at a range. Although I'm sure people have used them for hunting.

[bobdobbs]

It's more significant than that: The 2nd amendment is a safeguard against tyranny, not a protection for hunters or gun collectors. Indeed, the right to put food on the table wasn't a concern that warranted a Constitutional amendment. The real purpose of the 2nd was addressed at the time the Constitution was being written:

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.
---Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

All that still applies today.

[larchmont]

It's more significant than that: The 2nd amendment is a safeguard against tyranny, not a protection for hunters or gun collectors. Indeed, the right to put food on the table wasn't a concern that warranted a Constitutional amendment. The real purpose of the 2nd was addressed at the time the Constitution was being written:......
All that still applies today.
Even as a "liberal," I actually agree with that -- in both respects: That this was what the "founding fathers" meant, and that it still applies today.

The usual thing that gets said by liberal types is something like that maybe this applied in the days of muskets and before governments had such powerful and numerous armaments, plus, nowadays individuals don't need armaments because the government is responsible for defense.

But what converted me (to this extent anyway) was Tiananmen Square. 1989. When I saw that guy in the middle of the road, about to be run over by those tanks, the first thing I thought was, if I were him I would have wanted to have a gun. Never mind that it wouldn't have done his life expectancy any good -- but still. And I realized that even in the theoretical sense, the standard liberal view on this depends on infinite and ultimate trust in the authorities -- which we shouldn't go along with. And IMO that goes for the U.S. government as well as local safety departments. It's a tough question, because we don't want legions of armed citizens going up against local police departments either. But still: I don't think it's either desirable or in line with the Constitution for the authorities to be the only ones with arms.

That said, I'm still for every piece of gun-control legislation that has ever made it onto the radar screen, although I'm sure I would have been against many that didn't.

[Thorn2004]

Guns are bad m'kay, you shouldn't buy guns, because kids get those guns and go around shooting other kids, anyone remember the school shootings? ! I find it a little disturbing how readily guns are available in the US, its like you guys can go to your local store and pick one up when you are doing the groceries ;) Guns are weapons not toys if you have seen what guns can do firsthand you wouldn't want to go near one ever again. A few years back an idiot in Tasmania decided to get a gun and visit a local tourist attraction, this was a semi-auto rifle, he shot and killed like 15 people and injured another 20 ! Yeah so he was eventually caught after his rampage, but what did our government do as a result? Ban all Semi-Automatic weapons so at least it limits a madmans ability to mass murder in a short period of time making it less likely for them to try. This was a country wide ban, only authorised people can carry them and those are mainly military based people who need them for training.

So what has this achieved overall? No mass murders in Australia since, can you imagine that? I don't understand the US ideal that guns are totally acceptable and 'Every American has the right to bear arms'. Does this go all the way back to the days of Napolean?

[tony4311]

Guns are bad m'kay, you shouldn't buy guns, because kids get those guns and go around shooting other kids, anyone remember the school shootings? !


If the parents take responsibility and teach the kids about guns and how to respect them there's no problem.

read me please (http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob68.html)

I think it also really sucks that all semi autos were outlawed because of one person. It seems like they don't feel the people are adult enough to care for and take care of the weapons.

[bob shiftright]

No Assault Rifle for Kerry, After All
By JODI WILGOREN

Published: September 27, 2004

Senator John Kerry's campaign said yesterday that Mr. Kerry did not own a Chinese assault rifle, as he was quoted as saying in Outdoor Life magazine, but a single-bolt-action military rifle, blaming aides who filled out the magazine's questionnaire on his behalf for the error.

Michael Meehan, a spokesman for the campaign, said Mr. Kerry, the Democratic presidential nominee, owns two guns, a double-barreled 12-gauge shotgun and the rifle, which Mr. Meehan said Mr. Kerry "keeps as a relic" and had never fired. Mr. Meehan said the gun had no make or model markings on it and that Mr. Kerry "got it from a friend years ago," adding that such rifles were first manufactured in Russia more than 100 years ago and were used by the North Koreans and the Vietcong.

The clarification came in response to an article yesterday in The New York Times quoting Mr. Kerry's response to a question by Outdoor Life: "What is your favorite gun?"

"My favorite gun is the M-16 that saved my life and that of my crew in Vietnam," said Mr. Kerry, a veteran, according to the October issue. "I don't own one of those now, but one of my reminders of my service is a Communist Chinese assault rifle."

Though the comment was presented by Outdoor Life as part of an "exclusive interview with the two presidential candidates," four pages that included many long, conversational answers using first-person pronouns, Mr. Meehan said Mr. Kerry's portions were written by his staff. A public relations representative for Outdoor Life did not respond to a message seeking comment.

Soooooo... Amazing!

1.) The Senator seems to have a need to nail down his own BASE!

2.) :rofl: Senator's new motto: "The buck NEVER stops here!"

[HondaMan]

Soooooo... Amazing!

1.) The Senator seems to have a need to nail down his own BASE!

2.) :rofl: Senator's new motto: "The buck NEVER stops here!"

The Flip Flopping Base! :lol:

[larchmont]

Sorry to all the other Kerry (and Clinton) supporters, can't help loving this line (yes, I paraphrase):

"I never fired it."

[HondaMan]

Sorry to all the other Kerry (and Clinton) supporters, can't help loving this line (yes, I paraphrase):

"I never fired it."

Kind of like I never had sexual relations with that woman...right? ;)

[larchmont]

Kind of like I never had sexual relations with that woman...right? ;)
Yeah. Actually I was thinking more of "I never inhaled."

But you could take your pick. :D

[tony4311]

what bulls!ht. I'm sure some aide just pulled that out of his ass.


I got more pics of kerry searching for flip flop then I expected
http://www.bushcountry.org/cartoons/images/senator_flip_flop.jpg