rear camber kit/spring install

[Triz]

Has anyone here installed the rear camber kit and springs themselves? If so, how hard would you rate this install. And please let me know if there are any write-ups which i cant seem to find to installing these.

[Noel]

The camber kit or should I say replacement arms are not hard. You usually remove the wheel, take a look at the replacement part and remove the bolts in place ... Simple bolt-on, plug and play.

As for replacement springs, this one's gonna be a PITA if you don't have experience on doing such jobs. It's also the same process as above but you'd have to remove the interior trim and seats for the rear shocks. Then removing the springs from the shock requires professional tools as the springs always spring out hard ... If it catches you by surprise, it can be fatal depending where the springs fly out.

I'd suggest getting the springs replacement especially on the OE setup done by a professional because of safety reasons. Springs have a sprung rating power to propel it a good 10 to 15 meters in a split second, imagine if that hit you or anyone or anything for that matter.

[Triz]

Alright, I once had a buddy of mine install springs on my old 95 ford probe, i watched and aided in the whole process so im stuck on the line whether i should save 120 bucks and do it myself or get it done professionaly. Also, is it ok to install the rear camber kit right before i get my springs on or should i wait till after the springs are installed to do so
Thanks again
Mike

[Noel]

Makes no difference on when you install the camber kit, but I'd suggest doing it after when you ride height has been changed. That way, you can make alignment adjustments accordingly to optimize your new setup.

[P-Raz]

Makes no difference on when you install the camber kit, but I'd suggest doing it after when you ride height has been changed. That way, you can make alignment adjustments accordingly to optimize your new setup.

Yep, and infact depending on how the camber is you might not need the camber kit. Esp. if you are only going for a 1 inch drop.

And within the last two years I have either did or helped with lowering EP3's and RSX's (resulting in about 6 times all together), it takes time and the right tools. Not familiar if your suspension is nearly the same.

But you will need a second set of hands. And if you are doing it yourself, regardless if you or your friend have knowledge from other cars. You should try to get install instructions or similiar ones from somewhere.

[tsx on dubs]

triz i got ur back man i got a hydraulic spring compressor when u get here to make the job 100 times easier , david

[MemphisRheins]

Personally I do all the work thats even been done to my TSX, only wrenches to touch her have been my own, but springs arnt something I want to play around w/...so does anyone know the average price of install for lets say the comptech springs, and i've heard they require a chamber kit as well. I've been quoted around 350$ for an install and that just dosent seem right

[jprovostla]

I've got a quote for $150 to install all 4 springs... which takes about 1.5 hours...
But you need a good wheel alignment after which will cost close to $100...
Good luck...

[virtualbong]

I'm still undecided about whether or not I want to go right into lowering my car, but I've been doing as much research as I can. It looks like I could get a full coilover kit for around $1000 and then the Ingalls Rear Camber Kit for like $200 (right???) or I could just get the Eibach Pro Kit for $250 and the Ingalls Rear Camber Kit for $200. So the totals would be $1200 vs. $450. BIG DIFFERENCE. Since my main purpose for lowering the car would be to purchase some aftermarket wheels, which will most likely cost me over $1000, I'm thinking that the more realistic plan is to go with just the Eibach Pro Kit and Rear Ingalls Camber Kit. I read in this by Noel that the camber kit is very simple to install and that it doesn't even require instructions. You basically just look at what's in place currently, remove the bolts and add the new kit. Now, I read that the camber kits can be adjustable, how do we know what setting we should adjust it to? Does this make sense? I'm still trying to understand the camber kits, so bear with me. I've installed springs before on my Integra and helped my bro with his WRX, so I'm somewhat experienced with the spring install so I'm not afraid to tackle this DIY project, but its the camber kit that I'm not knowledgable on. Right now on my Integra I have 1.5" all around GoldLine Springs matched with my stock shocks and its pretty abusive. Its fine on flat roads, but if there's any imperfections with the road, its a pretty harsh thump, especially when I had the 40 sidewalls on my 17s. Now that I have the 45 sidewalls and 16s it can withstand some potholes and railroad tracks. I'm hoping that this setup won't be as bad as my current Integra setup. I guess I'm just wondering if this "bouncing" feeling from just the Eibachs is really that bad or is it because one is very picky. I wish I could ride in someone's car with that setup to compare with what I got now on my Integra.

[MemphisRheins]

I've got a quote for $150 to install all 4 springs... which takes about 1.5 hours...
But you need a good wheel alignment after which will cost close to $100...
Good luck...

Yeah...found a guy who will let me use his shop/tools to do it for 100$....and someone to do the alignment for 90....so thats what im probibly gonna do...

[LannyMCS]

I'm still undecided about whether or not I want to go right into lowering my car, but I've been doing as much research as I can. It looks like I could get a full coilover kit for around $1000 and then the Ingalls Rear Camber Kit for like $200 (right???) or I could just get the Eibach Pro Kit for $250 and the Ingalls Rear Camber Kit for $200. So the totals would be $1200 vs. $450. BIG DIFFERENCE. Since my main purpose for lowering the car would be to purchase some aftermarket wheels, which will most likely cost me over $1000, I'm thinking that the more realistic plan is to go with just the Eibach Pro Kit and Rear Ingalls Camber Kit. I read in this by Noel that the camber kit is very simple to install and that it doesn't even require instructions. You basically just look at what's in place currently, remove the bolts and add the new kit. Now, I read that the camber kits can be adjustable, how do we know what setting we should adjust it to? Does this make sense? I'm still trying to understand the camber kits, so bear with me. I've installed springs before on my Integra and helped my bro with his WRX, so I'm somewhat experienced with the spring install so I'm not afraid to tackle this DIY project, but its the camber kit that I'm not knowledgable on. Right now on my Integra I have 1.5" all around GoldLine Springs matched with my stock shocks and its pretty abusive. Its fine on flat roads, but if there's any imperfections with the road, its a pretty harsh thump, especially when I had the 40 sidewalls on my 17s. Now that I have the 45 sidewalls and 16s it can withstand some potholes and railroad tracks. I'm hoping that this setup won't be as bad as my current Integra setup. I guess I'm just wondering if this "bouncing" feeling from just the Eibachs is really that bad or is it because one is very picky. I wish I could ride in someone's car with that setup to compare with what I got now on my Integra.

Or you could do the Neuspeed/Koni struts and the Eibach Prokit Springs for less than $800, AND have a strut with adjustability. This is cheaper than full coilovers and would give a much better ride than the ProKit alone.

If you do the install yourself, you need to bring the car in for a professional alignment fairly soon. Bring in the instructions with your camber kit; the tech will use them to help him set the camber. You're probably looking to be around -1.0 degree rear camber; factory spec range is -1.5 to -.5. This is one thing you will not be able to do yourself.

Some install techs can get the car very close without an alignment rack due to years of experience. In this case, I would suggest driving around for a couple of weeks to let the springs settle before getting an alignment. But, if the settings were way off (and if you do it yourself they might be), a bad toe setting could wipe the tires out in a matter of a couple of days.

Oh, and I think one of the board sponsers, UltraRev, has the Ingalls rear kit for $139......

UltraRev/Ingalls Camber Kit (http://www.ultrarev.com/ecart/shopexd.asp?id=26952)

[virtualbong]

Or you could do the Neuspeed/Koni struts and the Eibach Prokit Springs for less than $800, AND have a strut with adjustability. This is cheaper than full coilovers and would give a much better ride than the ProKit alone.

If you do the install yourself, you need to bring the car in for a professional alignment fairly soon. Bring in the instructions with your camber kit; the tech will use them to help him set the camber. You're probably looking to be around -1.0 degree rear camber; factory spec range is -1.5 to -.5. This is one thing you will not be able to do yourself.

Some install techs can get the car very close without an alignment rack due to years of experience. In this case, I would suggest driving around for a couple of weeks to let the springs settle before getting an alignment. But, if the settings were way off (and if you do it yourself they might be), a bad toe setting could wipe the tires out in a matter of a couple of days.

Oh, and I think one of the board sponsers, UltraRev, has the Ingalls rear kit for $139......

UltraRev/Ingalls Camber Kit (http://www.ultrarev.com/ecart/shopexd.asp?id=26952)

Thanks LannyM, I did see this and I'm going to try to make a decision in the upcoming weeks. I really would like some aftermarket rims, but if I go with the entire strut/spring combo, I probably won't have enough for rims. We'll see though.

[AlterZgo]

Now, I read that the camber kits can be adjustable, how do we know what setting we should adjust it to? Does this make sense? I'm still trying to understand the camber kits, so bear with me. ... <snip>.... Right now on my Integra I have 1.5" all around GoldLine Springs matched with my stock shocks and its pretty abusive. Its fine on flat roads, but if there's any imperfections with the road, its a pretty harsh thump, especially when I had the 40 sidewalls on my 17s. Now that I have the 45 sidewalls and 16s it can withstand some potholes and railroad tracks. I'm hoping that this setup won't be as bad as my current Integra setup. I guess I'm just wondering if this "bouncing" feeling from just the Eibachs is really that bad or is it because one is very picky. I wish I could ride in someone's car with that setup to compare with what I got now on my Integra.

The camber kit is adjustable and would be adjusted by the person performing the alignment on your car. The way most people install the kit is to simply adjust the arm to match the length of the stock arm and install it that way. This will keep you at the baseline stock amount of camber (unless of course you lowered your car in which you will have increased negative camber, but to the exact same degree as you would have w/ the stock part).

What is likely happening on your integra w/ goldlines+stock shocks is that your car is bottoming out. The greater stiffness of the springs themselves do not cause the bouncey harsh ride quality. It is due to lack of suspension travel causing the car to bottom out and also lack of rebound damping causing the car to oscillate up and down instead of taking a firm stance.

It sounds counterintuitive, but many who install much stiffer rate springs paired with proper dampers that can handle the stiffer spring rate report an actual improvement in ride quality b/c the car is no longer bottoming out and doesn't feel floaty compared to cars lowered with softer springs and stock shocks.

This brings me to another issue. On the other forum, you had mentioned having problems w/ bending your aftermkt rims on the Integra and being concerned about upgrading to 18s on the TSX due to the same issue.

If your car is bottoming out AND you hit a pothole, it will likely damage your rim b/c what is happening is your 2800 lb car is slamming its full weight on the rim/tire and on the pothole. So, if you install a properly matched spring/shock combintation which keeps the car from bottoming out, it will actually prevent you from damaging your rims - even if you are running lower profile tires. It's like jumping from a height of 10 feet onto a super stiffly spring trampoline or a very softly sprung trampoline. On the soft trampoline, when you land on it, it will stretch and your foot would hit the hard floor. On the super stiff trampoline, the initial contact will feel stiffer, but you are prevented from touching the floor so you will not have the super harsh bottoming out feeling. You would be much more likely to break your leg on the softly sprung trampoline due to the much higher likelihood of hitting the hard floor.

[virtualbong]

AlterZgo - Again, you have been very helpful! I never really thought of the bottoming out to be the cause of my bent rims and this definitely could of been the reason. This now is going to be a big decision to make and will require me to totally revamp my research and start reading over threads again. Here are the options that I'm thinking about:

1. Eibach Pro Kit matched with Koni Yellow and Rear Ingalls Camber Kit
2. Some type of coilover and Rear Ingalls Camber Kit

If I go the coilover route, I am very clueless on which ones are reliable. I have read that some coilovers will rust and seize (ie. Tein Coilovers I believe). Should I stick with strut/spring combo or are coilovers really worth the money? I really won't be changing the height nor will I need to change the dampening since I would only use this for daily driving and the once in awhile spirited driving. Definitely no track time whatsoever (ie. drag or autox). Anyone have any suggestions and reasoning why I would go with what coilover? I will spend an extra hundred if a coilover is really worth the money over spring/strut combo.

[LannyMCS]

Koni/Neuspeed Struts $550 on eBay.
ProKit $200 on eBay.

The only coilover that comes close in price would be the Tein Basic, which is going to have a much higher spring rate, and no damping adjustabilty.

The H&R coilovers look interesting, but they're $1k, and still no damping adjustability, and I've yet to find out the spring rates.

[virtualbong]

Koni/Neuspeed Struts $550 on eBay.
ProKit $200 on eBay.

The only coilover that comes close in price would be the Tein Basic, which is going to have a much higher spring rate, and no damping adjustabilty.

The H&R coilovers look interesting, but they're $1k, and still no damping adjustability, and I've yet to find out the spring rates.

Yeah, the preferred coilovers seems to be the Teins. They cost wayyyyy too much so I think I'm going to stick with the Eibach Pro Kit and Koni Yellows. And definitely the Rear Ingalls Camber Kit. Can someone link me to the Rear Ingalls Camber Kit that I would have to pick up? Doesn't one of the sponsors sell a set for a decent price?

Ok, can someone tell me if this is what I need to get for the Rear Ingalls Camber Kit? (http://www.ultrarev.com/ecart/shopexd.asp?id=26952)

[AlterZgo]

The Ingalls Camber kit can be purchased here for $139.99:

http://www.ultrarev.com/ecart/shopexd.asp?id=26952

[virtualbong]

The Ingalls Camber kit can be purchased here for $139.99:

http://www.ultrarev.com/ecart/shopexd.asp?id=26952

LOL, that's the same link I posted right above you. Well, at least you've confirmed it. Now I just need to find the best places to pick up the Eibach Pro Kit and Koni Yellows.

[AlterZgo]

Oops. Sorry about that. :)

[LannyMCS]

This guy seems like a great deal......

ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7954702518&category=33590&sspagename=WDVW)

These have the shorter piston rod, and extra grooves in the strut body....

[virtualbong]

This guy seems like a great deal......

ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7954702518&category=33590&sspagename=WDVW)

These have the shorter piston rod, and extra grooves in the strut body....

Wait, all Koni Yellows aren't the same?

I have to wait a few weeks to purchase the suspension stuff. The OEM Kit hit me up hard so I have to accumulate some money again.

Well, it looks like no one is going to bid on this item so I'm thinking that I'll be able to pick it up in the future...hopefully

[LannyMCS]

Wait, all Koni Yellows aren't the same?

I have to wait a few weeks to purchase the suspension stuff. The OEM Kit hit me up hard so I have to accumulate some money again.

Well, it looks like no one is going to bid on this item so I'm thinking that I'll be able to pick it up in the future...hopefully

These are made by Koni to Neuspeed's specifications; you could say that they're customized for the TSX. The valving isn't different, but the shorter piston rod (by 20mm) allows for more suspension travel and less chance of bottoming out. The extra grooves would allow you to fine tune your ride height. Plus, I've haven't seen the regular Koni Sport for less anyway......

He's had them at this price for quite a while; sometimes he doesn't have an auction going but if you email him he can always get them.

[TSXTuner]

I've just done all these things you are talking about. I'm using Comtech
110-160 which I've since heard is the Eibach made for Comptech.
Ride is firm and good except really rough roads. And I have very harsh tires.
Next I will get a softer/larger tire. I'm thinking the A-spec springs using the
spring seat adjustment on the Nuespeeds for another 1/2" drop could be
better than the comptech/Eibach but I haven't driven a Aspec yet.

The Nuespeed Koni's are the way to go if you will keep lowering springs
because they are made 20mm shorter, can't go back to stock springs.
I'm using 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 turn front struts, 3/4 turn rear struts. And $100
less on Ebay.

Noel, if you read this can we get a sticky going for torque settings. I haven't
bought the Helms manual yet.

The Ingalls Kit. Get the torque wrench settings for all the susp points.
Clean and paint the center sleeve of the Ingalls links. They come black and
oily and then rust immediately. I used black caliper paint. The inside point of the toe link has a toe adjustment cam. Install this in the neutral point, the instructions say this.
You need a 1-1/16 open end to get to the jam nuts on the links, and the
inside one is very difficult from obstruction to access a wrench. I got an
small adjustable wrench from sears with a special thin jaw. The flats on the
sleeves are 13/16", some people might not have SAE tools so I mention this.
Adjustable wrench will work.

Important. There is some play in the Ingall ends to the stock susp bolts.
Leave everything loose. Install wheels and drop to wheels. Roll and bounce the car so everything
settles into it's natural loaded position. Then tighten everthing with the car down on wheels. Please put blocks under the chassis in case a tire blew out with you under the car. There isn't much room under the lowered car and access with the torque wrench is hard. A very long drive extension helped with torque wrench access. Watch the inside
toe adjuster cam does not move when tightening. It has reference marks.

Use a long contractors level. The camber can be set with a 6" machinists scale
measuring at the top and bottom of wheel to the level. For 18" wheel the top rim should be in .31" for 1 deg camber. Toe is not so easy. For toe you have
to drop plumb bobs from suspension points front and rear. Find the chasis centerline though these bobs, shoot a laser level, tie fishing line to jack stands around the car parallel with this chassis centerline. Measure toe to the fishing line. I haven't set all this up for toe yet, so eyeball it in and
go right to the alignment shop. The camber adjustments move the toe
dramatically. Intitially when I got to the alignment rack my eyeball toe was
not far off, a little positive.

I do not trust alignment racks because they do not base a reference to the
actual chassis center. I think their systems locate the centerline of wheels
and average that to project a centerline. Their centerline is derived from wheel alignment, wrong.

Get a tire depth gauge and watch wear closely in case something goes wrong
in alignment.

The reference point is everthing in any measurement, it has to be the
chassis centerline as defined by inside suspension points. I'm going to put
toghether this manual system in my garage and confirm my work on an alignment rack. I know for sure that the camber method with a level hit right on the money.

[LannyMCS]

I've just done all these things you are talking about. I'm using Comtech
110-160 which I've since heard is the Eibach made for Comptech.
Ride is firm and good except really rough roads. And I have very harsh tires.
Next I will get a softer/larger tire. I'm thinking the A-spec springs using the
spring seat adjustment on the Nuespeeds for another 1/2" drop could be
better than the comptech/Eibach but I haven't driven a Aspec yet.

I was originally thinking about pulling my A-spec springs off and putting them on the Nuespeed Koni's; one guy did ran the Koni Sport with the stock springs and was very happy.

But I'm looking for a little more stiffness, so I'm looking at different springs........

[TSXTuner]

I was originally thinking about pulling my A-spec springs off and putting them on the Nuespeed Koni's; one guy did ran the Koni Sport with the stock springs and was very happy.

But I'm looking for a little more stiffness, so I'm looking at different springs........


The stiffness cuts both ways. I have a mix of good and bad roads, some
really bad roads I slow way down for,
so I would want to be stiffer than the comtech 110-160
I have. But on nice to average roads these are great.

[TSXTuner]

I got back to the alignment shop today. The level and scale camber
method really works. My left rear was -.9 and right -1.0 camber, done
with a level. My toe was only a little off but in tolerance - done by eye.

On this car toe really changes with camber changes. When we adjusted
the left rear from -.9 to -1.0 toe went out from +.10" to + .15".

I think continuous monitoring of the camber with a level will be
good enough to monitor, if the camber changes you know something moved and the toe changed, and that will eat tires.

Once back from the alignemnt shop you can span a known length
of your level across the tire or rim centerline, and measure to a location
on the rocker panel. It's repeatable if you use the same length to
span across tire to the rocker panel. Mark the lengths on your level.
Now you have a reference to monitor if toe changes.

For an 18" rim, the top of the rim should be in .31" at 1 deg camber.
But this at the beadseat, the outside of the rim is a little taller.
It takes about .33" for me to be at 1deg camber.

[goowakjai]

who makes camber kits for the cl9 (euro/tsx)?

[Noel]

Erm, did you actually read through the whole thread? A few manufacturers have been listed above.