Steering Pulling Left

[guzzy888]

Hello all,

I am new from Australia. For those Euro owners in Aust, do you experience your steering tend to "lean" left or slight pull to the left? I had a wheel alignment done but the Honda dealer said it still pulls left a bit and this is normal as the roads are cambered.

It bothers me a bit. Should i be very concern? I had a wheel alignment done already, what else could the dealer tweak to make it better? I have checked tyre pressure and I am a careful driver. It was like this ever since i got the car. Is this normal? It does drive straight if i hold the streering wheel. However, i can detect a slight pull to the left.

Also do you find the Euro has a "rougher" ride because of its suspension?

Thanks

Guzzy888

[Joker]

Hello, and welcome to the Club guzzy888 :wavey:

Joker - who goes to get Noel for you :D

[Noel]

For those Euro owners in Aust, do you experience your steering tend to "lean" left or slight pull to the left? I had a wheel alignment done but the Honda dealer said it still pulls left a bit and this is normal as the roads are cambered. Also do you find the Euro has a "rougher" ride because of its suspension?

Welcome, BTW whereabouts are you located?

No, and I make serious emphasis that this needs to be sorted out by your dealership. The car should drive straight, steer straight and brake straight under any conditions. One of the following symptions could cause the car to drive "off centre" in general.

- Spring spacers (These are little rubber brackets they put in between the springs prior to delivery, if these have not been completely removed or some of them are still on the car. It will hinder the car's suspension performance, this could be a cause. A common thing that dealerships will miss when preparing vehicle delivery.)

- Wheel balance (The tyres could have been mounted or balanced incorrectly, this is an operator issue but can most certainly occur. They need to strip the tyre from the rim and rebalance the wheel.)

- Alignment particular to this toe. (The factory only comes with toe no camber or caster adjustement, this could be off manufacturer specifications or not aligned competently.) This is the one that will fix your problem if the above aren't the cause.

- Damaged suspension/steering geometry components. (I better hope this is not part of the issue but you never know. They might have damaged something unknowingly. Of course this needs to be inspected in detail if neither of the following 3 above are a cause.)

In either, your car is under factory warranty and they're obligated to fix it. There's no such thing as cambered roads. No Honda drives like that from factory. And yes, the Euro does ride stiffer/harder than the previous Accord models found in Australia. This spots a slightly higher spring rate for that contributed improved handling over the previous models as well.

[guzzy888]

Hi Noel and Joker,

Thanks for the greeting and reply. I will talk to my dealer when i get the chance. I did another test lastnight. The road i was driving is yes..cambered. It was sort of curved from left to right with the middle of the road being the tallest point. If i drive on the left side, yes the car will lean left, and if i drive it on the right, the car does lean right. If i drive in the middle, the car does drive straight.

Comparing to my friend's Mazda 6, i find my steering does "hold" the position esp on a cambered road. Maybe I am comparing apple to an orange.

I am in Western Aust, Perth.

Guzzy

[guzzy888]

Oh i have to make it clear that my car does drive straight and does break straight. The pulling left happens if i dont hold the steering wheel. i was just testing this as i felt a bit of a lean left if the road is cambered. Maybe i am crazy, non the less i will mention it to the dealer when i get the 1st Aussie Recall on Euro done.

Thanks for your input.

BTW i am scare and sick of going back to dealers. I had a major shock when i got my 1st Euro, the dealer was suppose to fix the tint scratch issue during 1000KM service. The tinter crashed my Euro! Could not believed it. I did managed to get a 2nd Euro. Very crazy!

[Noel]

Hang on, let's start again. :banghead:

The road i was driving is yes..cambered. It was sort of curved from left to right with the middle of the road being the tallest point. If i drive on the left side, yes the car will lean left, and if i drive it on the right, the car does lean right. If i drive in the middle, the car does drive straight.

From your remarks above, there's nothing possibly wrong with the car if you ask me. Instead this is a terrain related concern. The way the road is "cambered" is not because they're build like that, but instead it's the wear and tear placed on the tarmac causing this effect. Our federal highways unfortunately are lined with such conditions making it adversing dangerous when switching lanes at speed.

Oh i have to make it clear that my car does drive straight and does break straight. The pulling left happens if i dont hold the steering wheel.

Your last statement above indicates to me that it's a "self-induced" action rather than a vehicle defect.

I personally would never take my hand off the steering especially when the road surface isn't smooth and flat. This is asking for trouble. :thumbsdow

[larchmont]

No, and I make serious emphasis that this needs to be sorted out by your dealership. The car should drive straight, steer straight and brake straight under any conditions.
That's what I thought too. But I never would have known about all the rest....
One of the following symptions could cause the car to drive "off centre" in general.

- Spring spacers (These are little rubber brackets they put in between the springs prior to delivery, if these have not been completely removed or some of them are still on the car. It will hinder the car's suspension performance, this could be a cause. A common thing that dealerships will miss when preparing vehicle delivery.)

- Wheel balance (The tyres could have been mounted or balanced incorrectly, this is an operator issue but can most certainly occur. They need to strip the tyre from the rim and rebalance the wheel.)

- Alignment particular to this toe. (The factory only comes with toe no camber or caster adjustement, this could be off manufacturer specifications or not aligned competently.) This is the one that will fix your problem if the above aren't the cause.

- Damaged suspension/steering geometry components. (I better hope this is not part of the issue but you never know. They might have damaged something unknowingly. Of course this needs to be inspected in detail if neither of the following 3 above are a cause.).....
.....except for the parts about wheel balance and alignment.

In general it could also be unequal tire pressures, but he mentioned right away that he checked that.

There's no such thing as cambered roads.
Didn't think so.



Great analysis by Noel.

[guzzy888]

Thank you all :)

[alnug]

a very simple diagnosis is to check teh actual trye....try swapping the front tyres around and see if the 'pull' changes...if it does its a defective tyre...try this first since you say you have the tracking already checked

[yf1]

Guzzy - I couldn't help but smile when I read your posts - we have had the same Euro experiences - dealer issue with tint scratch - pulling to the left!

The pulling to the left should only happen when you take your hands off the wheel completely. It is a very slow pull to the left.

I am assured by my dealer this is a safety feature in case you fall asleep at the wheel. Instead of hitting oncoming traffic - you only hurt yourself. This is no joke - that is what Honda told me :) Is it complete bs? - I don't know.

I had my wheel alignment checked too - came up fine.

[alnug]

i must say if it is a PULL then it is not normal....a DRIFT yes maybe due to the camber of the road.

What you really need to do is find a stretch of road with very little of no camber to test. I had a pull/drift on my previous car..yes the dealer said it was normal etc etc and gave the same excuse to say that it's for safety etc......I bought none of it.

Think about it.....a car with 0 toe in would mean that the wheels are tracking straight ahead....this could only mean that the car can go straight, given that your suspension is ok etc etc. (to me i doubt that any of these extra parts are the problem)! If the drifting was built into the car the only other place it can come from is an imbalance built into the powersteering...now i seriously doubt manufacturers would do that!

Going back to my old car, yes the dealer checked the tracking and everything was ok...so they gave me the same BS excuse about safety etc. I finally took my car to another place which could fully check my wheels and tires with a Hunter GSP9700 machine....do a search and have a look at this machine...i think it is widely available in the States. Anyway to cut a long story short we found that the pull was due to the tires. The machine told us which axle which tire should go on to reduce/ eliminate the pull and I was happy ever since...the car had never steered so well from new!!!

All I can say is that a PULL is NOT normal, as I suggested before you should switch the tires around and see if it makes any difference to the pull...also try rotating your wheels and see if there is any drag from the brakes.

I may also add that a PUllING car is very fatiguing to drive and takes away a LOT of driving pleasure.

Drifting of the car is further enhanced with the wider tires that are on the car. My UK spec car has 225/45 R17 tires...yes i do sense a drift with the camber of the road but no way is it a PULL....if the tires were 205 i would suspect the drift would be further reduced.

[Noel]

All I can say is that a PULL is NOT normal, as I suggested before you should switch the tires around and see if it makes any difference to the pull...also try rotating your wheels and see if there is any drag from the brakes.

Another good suggestion and further reinforcement that any type of so called not driving straight is a concern, period.

[larchmont]

Seems like a number of people refer to "camber" of a road, especially if they're overseas.

I wonder if the word has a broader meaning outside the U.S.

To me, speaking of the camber of a road is like speaking of a car being bumpy or something like that......


Here's a page I found which talks about "camber." I thought it just meant that.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/techarticles/66018/index1.html

[Noel]

Camber means exactly that on how the car's alignment geometry can be setup, but cambering on the road ... No such thing.

[alnug]

In UK the camber of the road is basically the curvature associsated with the road to allow for surface water run off into the drains...ofcourse then there is also camber of the wheels which is something else.....

hope everyone had a good christmas!!!!!!

[Duke]

Camber means exactly that on how the car's alignment geometry can be setup, but cambering on the road ... No such thing.
Actually, Noel, I have to take exception to that. Roads are cambered from the centerline toward the edges in order to promote drainage of rainwater off the road surface and into the ditch. Used this way, it's interchangeable with "crown" of the road.

However, turns on a track or road that are banked to the outside, rather than the inside of the corner, are also referred to as "off-camber". Usually on most turns the crown of the road surface is omitted in favor of a single smooth bank towards the inside, to facilitate cars negotiating the turn at speed as well as drainage. However, due to age, or poor construction, or terrain constraints, sometimes the road surface is cambered to the outside. This obviously has major impact on the way a car handles the turn.

If you listen to the WRC co-drivers they often call out "reverse" or "off" in conjunction with an upcoming turn, to warn the driver about off-camber road.

[Noel]

However, turns on a track or road that are banked to the outside, rather than the inside of the corner, are also referred to as "off-camber". Usually on most turns the crown of the road surface is omitted in favor of a single smooth bank towards the inside, to facilitate cars negotiating the turn at speed as well as drainage. However, due to age, or poor construction, or terrain constraints, sometimes the road surface is cambered to the outside. This obviously has major impact on the way a car handles the turn.

This I agree, however adverse comments above on how specific cambering is setup on public roads. I think not.

[EUROazn]

Hey all,
i have experienced the same problem too, not from new but from when the time i lowered my car and changed to 19inch wheels. There has been alot of "tracking" but i generally believe "pulling to left" has been caused by bad road conditions rather than the actual car. Its unfortunate that new car buyers have to go through so much agony to amend problems with their cars when it is clear manufacturers owe a duty of care to consumers.

[Noel]

Tramlining can also be caused by larger/wider contact patch wheels. jjjjjjjj8

[guzzy888]

Wow i didn't expect my experience to generate so many replies/comments.

My car does "drift" left especially on "slanted" road. I am getting used to it. However, at times when the road is flatter. The car seems to drive straight although there is still a tendency to "drift" left.

I just read on the newspaper in Western Australia that the 2005 Accord Euro has 17" wheels and upgraded suspension. I wonder if it drives any different! Same price! My friend's Mazda 6 comes with 17" wheels and it seem to maintain a straighter direction longer as compared to my "left drift" car. My car is just under 10,000KM!

[larchmont]

.....I just read on the newspaper in Western Australia that the 2005 Accord Euro has 17" wheels and upgraded suspension.....
We already had 17's right?

About the suspension: I wonder if that means they're getting the A-Spec suspension as stock?
Or, more likely, that they're now getting the regular TSX suspension.

It's also possible it's a mistake.


It seems that few people realize it, but supposedly one of the differences between the Euro Accord and the TSX was the suspension.

We never had much info about this, but supposedly the TSX's suspension is "more finely tuned."

[Noel]

We already had 17's right? About the suspension: I wonder if that means they're getting the A-Spec suspension as stock? Or, more likely, that they're now getting the regular TSX suspension.

In Australia, 17s are a new thing. :banghead:

And no, it's not the A-Spec suspension we're getting. It's just that the new CL9 for Australia has been revised with suspension tweaks to accomodate with the new setup along with much better/gripper performance oriented tyres.

[johnej]

Noel,

What are the differences between the Euro Accord and the TSX?

And how is the TSX's suspension more finely tuned??

[Noel]

No idea really, and it's up to anyone's guess or speculation. Until one has a set from either car ... There's no possible way to determine any differences if any.

[johnej]

thank u

[larchmont]

I believe there's supposedly a difference in power too, with the TSX having somewhat more hp than the Euro Accord. Any credence to this?

(Or, maybe the hp of the TSX is just more than the "regular" Euro, but the same as the Euro Type S?)

[robert_tg]

I bought body kit from someone who had this "pulling" problem. Dealer couldn't get it resolved so offered buyback.

[Noel]

I believe there's supposedly a difference in power too, with the TSX having somewhat more hp than the Euro Accord.

No :slap: Only the JDM CL9 if anything has any power differences compared to export spec CL9s. In fact, Australian CL9s are quicker than Americas region CL9s thanks to a 75KG lighter car on either transmission.

200bhp (140kW) @ 6800 RPMs
166lbs-ft (223 Nm) @ 4500 RPMs

(US 1465 KG 6MT / US 1505 KG 5AT)
(AU 1390 KG 6MT / AU 1430 KG 5AT)

[guzzy888]

Hi All,

Just a quick UPDATE on my issue.

Today I got my car fixed!!!

I got the dealer to re-examine the "pulling" left issue. When i picked up the car i booked in for the Recall, they also fixed the alignment.

They said my car tire was a bit worn out. Possibly due to out of alignment. They said they swap the front 2 tyres around and my car is driving very straight.

I am just bad luck that i got a car which is out of alignment from the factory.

All sorted now. I am yet to test it on the free way. But i do notice 99% improvement! So I am not crazy after all!

Guzzy :p

[TSX 'R' US]

great news glad your car is all good now :thumbsup:

[spyguy]

i noticed something about my steering as well, the steering wheel isn't totally straight when i'm going straight. when i let go to test the alignment on a straight road (with no camber), the car pretty much goes straight. Is this an easy fix? my tsx is a 2005, 4 days old from rallye acura in roslyn, ny.

Also, there's some clear coat on the roof that looks like its peeling, i'll post pics tonight. is that under warranty?

[larchmont]

Hi All,
Just a quick UPDATE on my issue.
Today I got my car fixed!!!
I got the dealer to re-examine the "pulling" left issue. When i picked up the car i booked in for the Recall, they also fixed the alignment.
They said my car tire was a bit worn out. Possibly due to out of alignment. They said they swap the front 2 tyres around and my car is driving very straight.
I am just bad luck that i got a car which is out of alignment from the factory.
All sorted now. I am yet to test it on the free way. But i do notice 99% improvement! So I am not crazy after all! :p
Yes -- I guess it was a "real" problem after all. :D

("Camber of the road," my a$$.)