Temporary contracts for dealer trades?

[sygyzy]

I am purchasing my TSX this week and am going with the dealer that has given me the best customer service and price. The problem is, he needs to secure the vehicle from another dealership. Not a big deal to me. However, a few things concern me that I'd like advice on.

He says that they cannot do a trade unless I sign papers. That means I have to make two trips at 100 miles each direction, 400 miles total. The upside is that I won't have to pay any money until I receive the car. So what am I actually signing in the first contract? Has anyone been in a similar situation? If it is a contract that says "I will buy said car" then I am locked in for a vehicle that never arrives. I am not implying that they wouldn't deliver the vehicle, but say something happens like they (the dealers) cannot agree to a trade. Now they have me under legal obligation with a sales contract. I am not sure why I am required to sign any documenation if the vehicle is not present.

Another is the wear and tear and mileage put on as a result of the trade. That is, the 30-60 miles (or more!) that goes on the car being driven from the other dealer. What if the driver is hard on the engine, that'd just about defeat my trying to break it in. What if the car was a test drive model? Are they allowed to pass that off as new?

I am sure someone must have been in a similar situation before. Maybe you were waiting for a color to come in and your dealer said he located one in another dealership? Please let me know how I should proceed.

Thanks.

[larchmont]

I don't see why you have to go there twice.
Why can't they FedEx you the stuff to sign, then you FedEx it back?

[Noel]

Another is the wear and tear and mileage put on as a result of the trade. That is, the 30-60 miles (or more!) that goes on the car being driven from the other dealer. What if the driver is hard on the engine, that'd just about defeat my trying to break it in. What if the car was a test drive model? Are they allowed to pass that off as new?

If you don't want people to drive it, you might want to suggest to have the car towed or picked-up by a car freight and have it delivered. But of course, you'd probably have to pay for that. And no, a demo/test drive model cannot be passed or indicated as a new car under no circumstances worldwide.

[larchmont]

What the hey do I know, but I'd a helluva lot rather have it driven than towed (or even flat-bedded).

You mean y'all wouldn't?

Larchmont, who still wonders why they can't FedEx the stuff back and forth.

[sygyzy]

I'll address both replies.

1. I guess I could have them Fed Ex documents for me to sign but what if I wanted terms negotiated or things added. Then I would have to send it back to them and then back again, then back to them again. Each time I would probably be footing the bill. Next Day Fed Ex is expensive. I have not checked but probably $15+ each time? If I am sitting there, I assume the contract could be changed on the fly. I am mostly curious about *what* they are having me sign. I mean, what am I agreeing to? I know, I know. I am going to ask them the first chance I get tomorrow, but I was just hoping someone might know.

2. Flatbed would probably cost $350. I just thought of another solution. I could just pick it up at whichever dealer it is coming from. I wonder if they'd go for that. The only cons I can see are a. Most likely a further drive for me since there are no dealers really between my residence and the dealer I am purchasing from. That means it'd have to be past him. b. What if the dealer charged my dealer a delivery fee and my dealer conveniently forgets to take that off. Of course it won't be itemized into the price, it'll just raise it. If I agree on an OTD, I am hoping that whatever my dealer has to do to get my car, he should take care of, right? And not raise the price.

3. Good to hear about the demo car. I was afraid they might pass it off as new. I have no reason to think they would, but that's just paranoia speaking.

Hope I am not just babbling on here.

[larchmont]

I thought it sounded like you already had all the details worked out -- and to your liking. After all, you said right at the beginning that you wanted to go with this dealer because they gave you the best service and price!!!

If not -- I don't see why you're dealing with them at all, in view of the distance.

If yes -- what else do you want to negotiate?? :donno:

[Hacker]

First of all.

I have similar situation and many TSX club members helped me to do right things and I got the additional $300 discount.

If you have a time, please read my thread

My dealer said new TSXs was comming from Japan, the ship had been left on Jan 7th and I would get my TSX on Feb 6th or 7th.
The ship will arrive at CA on the end of the Fab and there is no need to be traded among dealers. As a result, If you wait for some time and the ship has the car you want, you can get the new TSX without contact of other dealers and additional charge since the TSX could come up on his monthly import shipment list.

In addition, when my dealer tried to find the TSX in other dealerships, I had same anxiety like you. But he said the TSX is always traded by flatbed and it cost b/w $300 and $500. that I needed to do is to give him a depoit. No sign for it.

I signed for just agreement of the credit report (I do not know the exact name of it sorry) and dealed the TSX via email. ( I keep the all emails from my dealer )

I think you should not sign for the car before you see it.

If you want to get the TSX after Fab, I can ask my dealer to find your car in the ship.
If so, give me the TSX informtaion that you want.

Have a great day

[sygyzy]

I thought it sounded like you already had all the details worked out -- and to your liking. After all, you said right at the beginning that you wanted to go with this dealer because they gave you the best service and price!!!

If not -- I don't see why you're dealing with them at all, in view of the distance.

If yes -- what else do you want to negotiate?? :donno:


The deal was made over email. If I assume that all the terms will stay valid when it gets inked into a contract, then there goes some of my tension. But the bigger question is why am I signing anything if there is no car delivered. What exactly am I signing? Dealer got back to me and said that I would be signing the full agreement to purchase the car. He claims that if it does not get delivered then the contract is void by law. I am not a contract lawyer so I am not sure if this is the case.

I'd prefer to just pay a deposit then go from there. To me, getting it from a dealer or a factory should make no difference. Why would I have to sign anything differently?

Thoughts?

[sygyzy]

First of all.

I have similar situation and many TSX club members helped me to do right things and I got the additional $300 discount.

If you have a time, please read my thread

My dealer said new TSXs was comming from Japan, the ship had been left on Jan 7th and I would get my TSX on Feb 6th or 7th.
The ship will arrive at CA on the end of the Fab and there is no need to be traded among dealers. As a result, If you wait for some time and the ship has the car you want, you can get the new TSX without contact of other dealers and additional charge since the TSX could come up on his monthly import shipment list.

In addition, when my dealer tried to find the TSX in other dealerships, I had same anxiety like you. But he said the TSX is always traded by flatbed and it cost b/w $300 and $500. that I needed to do is to give him a depoit. No sign for it.

I signed for just agreement of the credit report (I do not know the exact name of it sorry) and dealed the TSX via email. ( I keep the all emails from my dealer )

I think you should not sign for the car before you see it.

If you want to get the TSX after Fab, I can ask my dealer to find your car in the ship.
If so, give me the TSX informtaion that you want.

Have a great day

This is not really an option since I want the car now and not a month from now. Besides, all the ships have cars that are assigned to dealers/buyers. It's not just Acura sending over random cars to populate the dealer lots. They were all ordered by dealers. If my dealer isn't ordering that exact car, they still would need to trade for it. Also, in a month, the price might change from my dealer.

[joerockt]

This is all BS. You shouldnt sign anything unless your ready to take delivery right then and there. Are the two dealers Acura dealers? If so, your getting jerked around.

I put a $100 deposit down (would have gotten it back no matter what happened) and the dealer I went through transfered the car from another dealer. Car showed up, signed the paperwork, and off I drove.

Edit: Stop using email and CALL the person your dealing with.

[sygyzy]

What did you sign when you put the $100. Surely, you must have filled out some sort of application.

[1speed]

I don't know if this applies to your situation, but I just signed a sales contract that they marked 'purchase order only', to hold the car I wanted that was coming in this week. I'm under no obligation to purchase it, if I decide not to. There was no payment involved.

[sygyzy]

That looks like it might apply to me. Where was the car coming from?

[1speed]

It's not coming from another dealer, it's on a boat somewhere.

[joerockt]

What did you sign when you put the $100. Surely, you must have filled out some sort of application.

No, no app. Just a sheet that basically said my deposit gives me first dibs on the next 6MT CG with Navi on the lot and that I would get this deposit back no matter what happened. They never even deposited the check.

[Joker]

Hello, and welcome to the Club 1speed :wavey:

[1speed]

Thank you Joker. I've enjoyed viewing everyone's posts. This is the first time I've posted (anywhere).

[Joker]

This is the first time I've posted (anywhere).
Awesome! You came to the right place :thumbsup:

[johnej]

welcome 1speed

[sygyzy]

It's not coming from another dealer, it's on a boat somewhere.

Who is your dealer and what did you order?

[Doc]

Hi sygzy. Your concerns are valid, I myself had a similar experience 3 weeks ago when I bought my TSX.

I had to put a $1,000 deposit down to secure the car I wanted, and then I had to wait until the dealer could have it driven from the nearest dealership.

The only papers I signed prior to the car being at my dealership was the order form, and my credit card slip for the deposit. I think basically I said I forfeit my deposit if they deliver the car and I don't buy it.

I have had an underlying concern about the car being driven hard from one dealer to the other ever since I bought it. My car had 174 miles when I picked it up. However, I justify it four ways:
1. If I didn't have it driven I would have had to wait 6 months for the next shipment of TSX's
2. I have faith that the people working for these dealers are ethical agents
3. I didn't have to pay another $350 to flatbed the car
4. I only waited 5 days for the car I wanted

Oh yeah, welcome 1speed.

[LannyMCS]

There are so many things that into play in a situation like this.

Local customs, differing laws from state to state, different dealer practices.

In my area, central CT, there are 5 dealers within 30 minutes of my house. I like to use the one that's 3 minutes from my house; I've been buying from them since 1989, and have gotten 6 cars from them. In several cases, including my TSX, they have had to get the car from another dealership. MyTSX came all the way from NY, and it had 140 miles on it when it was delivered. An employee of my dealership drove to NY with a NBP 5AT TSX and came home with my SSM 6MT Navi.

I didn't have to sign any paperwork or leave a deposit, but I would imagine that for most customers, they would probably cover themselves by charging a non refundable deposit that would cover the cost of the swap in case I backed out. That's what I would imagine they're looking for in your case. They may not call it that, but there is a cost involved in swapping vehicles, and dealerships are in business to make money. Without any deposit, you could walk away for any reason and they'd be out the money.

In other parts of the country, where dealerships are much further apart, having a vehicle trucked may be the only way to facilitate such a transfer.

As far as paperwork goes, I'm surprised they can't fax you a form to sign and take your CC info on the phone.

If they're driving it, I can't imagine the risk is very high that they're going to abuse it. I know the guy who does the transfers for my dealership; he in his 60's and I've seen him drive. If anything, the car would be driven too slow. If they sent some kid who looks like he spends his weekends at the dragstrip, I guess I'd have second thoughts.

I guess it's situations like this that make it hard to buy cars at invoice. I was able to pick up my 04 Navi for $26,700 plus the following fees-registration, title, 6% sales tax and a $200 dealer conveyance fee, which is designed to cover paperwork. I would argue against such a fee if I was paying retail, but considering it was close to invoice and they had to go get it, it seemed fair. but, they did have a dozen or so on the lot, as did the other 4 dealers that were very close by.

Good luck with your deal.

[larchmont]

Great post, Lanny.
One thing I think might be wrong, though: You talked about a possible "non-refundable" deposit.

I think legally there's no such thing, although as you said, things vary from state to state, so maybe in some states there is.

[LannyMCS]

Great post, Lanny.
One thing I thing might be wrong, though: You talked about a possible "non-refundable" deposit.

I think legally there's no such thing, although as you said, things vary from state to state, so maybe in some states there is.

Yeah, it would definitely vary by state law. In CT, there's a provision on the new vehicle bill of sale that allows the dealer to list a deposit, and then its conditions- refundable, conditionally refundable, or non refundable. Conditionally refundable might say something like you get your deposit back if we can't get you financing, for example.

I've never seen a non refundable contract for a car, but I could imagine a situation where a dealership might put one in-like if you order a yellow car with a red interior, for example :D.........

[sygyzy]

Thanks for your advice everyone. I am going to push the reundable deposit/fax option to my dealer. This is rediculous.

Also, I am not sure what the laws are in CA but I am getting conflicting reports. One dealer said they have no right to keep a deposit, therefore they don't allow anyone to place one. Others said they refund them, as required by law, if the car is not delivered. But not if I change my mind.

[LannyMCS]

Thanks for your advice everyone. I am going to push the reundable deposit/fax option to my dealer. This is rediculous.

Also, I am not sure what the laws are in CA but I am getting conflicting reports. One dealer said they have no right to keep a deposit, therefore they don't allow anyone to place one. Others said they refund them, as required by law, if the car is not delivered. But not if I change my mind.


Try contacting your state Consumer Protection Department; they will be able to explain the statute for Cali........

[larchmont]

.....like if you order a yellow car with a red interior, for example :D......
:lol: Would I love to be able to photoshop. :lol:

(TRU, where are you?)

[sygyzy]

Well, it looks like my not agreeing to signing full papers prior to seeing the car resulted in the dealer not wanting to work with me. Very depressing.

[LannyMCS]

Well, it looks like my not agreeing to signing full papers prior to seeing the car resulted in the dealer not wanting to work with me. Very depressing.

It always boils down to supply and demand. Show even the slightest interest in a car that they have a lot of, and they won't leave you alone. In this case, you're talking about a car they don't even have, and they probably have more potential customers than cars, so they're not overly motivated....

[larchmont]

It's what Lanny said.

If it had been me, I just would have signed anything, on whatever terms they wanted, because I was DESPERATE to get the car.
In fact, that's what I did do.

And while that was extreme, it's quite possible they have plenty of people who are desperate enough, so the dealers can call the shots. That's what one is up against in getting a popular car.

Actually, from the kinds of discounts that people are getting on TSX's now (seems to be about $1K on the average, give or take), I didn't have the impression it was like that with the TSX right now. But maybe in certain regions it is.

[joerockt]

Well, it looks like my not agreeing to signing full papers prior to seeing the car resulted in the dealer not wanting to work with me. Very depressing.

Cant you just go to the dealer that actually had the car?

Dont understand why they would make you do that. Who the hell buys a car without seeing it first???

Sounds like your better off not dealing with these guys.

[sygyzy]

I don't think dealers ever tell you who they trade from. Because why would they want to locate a car for you and then have you go give the business to the new dealer?

[sygyzy]

You guys are totally right. He was my lowest offer and he said so himself, I am not an easy sale like people who walk off from the street and just pay full MSRP. I am going to try to see what I can do.

[joerockt]

I don't think dealers ever tell you who they trade from. Because why would they want to locate a car for you and then have you go give the business to the new dealer?

Go to acura.com, type in your zip and it will tell you all the dealerships in your area. Just call them up!

[sygyzy]

Hmm I think maybe we are confusing each other here.

1. Dealer A gave me best price, but does not have car in stock.
2. Dealer A want to acquire car from Dealer B through trade. Whatever terms they are dealing with are private.

I cannot just guess who Dealer B is. Even if I did, they would not sell it to me for Dealer A's low price.

[Doc]

Give the business to the dealer that most deserves it. Price is not always the best factor to solely rely on.

For example I went to my local dealer even though he was $250 more expensive than another nearby dealer. However, the local guy took the time to show me the car and was absolutely hassle free. The other guy was just throwing numbers out at me to get the business. Now if the price difference is significant (maybe $500 or greater), well... then business is business.

[Doc]

I think you have to ask yourself how bad you want the car, and how fast you want to be driving it? If it were me, I would motivate Dealer A to get the car on their lot and the keys into my hand as fast as possible.

[joerockt]

Hmm I think maybe we are confusing each other here.

1. Dealer A gave me best price, but does not have car in stock.
2. Dealer A want to acquire car from Dealer B through trade. Whatever terms they are dealing with are private.

I cannot just guess who Dealer B is. Even if I did, they would not sell it to me for Dealer A's low price.

I see. Still, you should call some other dealers. I called 4 dealers total before buying from the dealer right down the road from me.

[sygyzy]

Got some dealers to match the second lowest price. Was about to drive to San Jose but found one closer to home/Los Angeles. Going there tonight. Wish me luck guys. I might have a 05 TSX by tonight!

[larchmont]

:fingers crossed:

[sygyzy]

Car is home. Pretty painless experience. Only snag is the salesman was using an outdated system and quoted me too little on the DMV charge. $22 too little. I was not very happy about this. It's a matter of principle. I am given a price and I drove 2 hours after work to buy the car and now it's $22 more? He tried to get the owner to reduce the base price for me but they wouldn't budge beause they said they could sell the car to someone else for more. I was tired of looking plus I just had a friend drive me 2 hours so I said I'll just take it.

If it was a local dealer, I would have walked.

Anyway, car is home, thanks everyone for your help :)

[Doc]

Congratulations! bbbbb5

[joerockt]

Awesome, congrats!

[sygyzy]

Thanks guys :)

[Joker]

Thanks guys :)
Congrats as well :woot:

[larchmont]

Car is home. Pretty painless experience. Only snag is the salesman was using an outdated system and quoted me too little on the DMV charge. $22 too little. I was not very happy about this. It's a matter of principle. I am given a price and I drove 2 hours after work to buy the car and now it's $22 more? He tried to get the owner to reduce the base price for me but they wouldn't budge beause they said they could sell the car to someone else for more. I was tired of looking plus I just had a friend drive me 2 hours so I said I'll just take it.

If it was a local dealer, I would have walked.

Anyway, car is home, thanks everyone for your help :)
You did good.

BTW.....try not to worry too much about the $22. You did good. :nod: