ChinchillaX
02-10-2005, 02:52 PM
Hot Rod Honda: Civic Si Concept looks fast just sitting on the show stand
MARK VAUGHN
Posted Date: 2/10/05
The new Civic Si could return Honda to the glory days of the late ’80s and early ’90s when it ruled the sport compact scene, or at least bring it back as a frontrunner in what has, in the meantime, become a fairly crowded field of sport compact superheroes.
Honda all but created the modern sport compact scene with the Civic S in 1984, the Si in 1986 and the iconic CRX Si soon after that. (We still love that CRX Si.) Those early subcompact performance Hondas were simple, stylish cars that were lightweight, agile and fast—and remained fun to drive long after they depreciated into an inexpensive used car. Granted, there were sport compacts before the Civic Si (the Mini, the GTI, etc.—we know, please don’t write letters). But the Si created that fast and furious hubbub still with us today.
Then, in the mid-’90s, Honda began to drift away from the spiky-haired, budget boy racer who loved it and toward the more mainstream, mass-market buyer. Honda even identified this buyer (we are not making this up) as a 24-year-old named Jennifer. Other manufacturers stepped in to fill the subcompact performance void.
Honda has entered an Si in the market recently, but with this concept, Honda is making a loud statement that it is back. Can this new Civic Si return Honda to that glory?
This concept and some preliminary specs torn from Honda two weeks before the Chicago show suggest it can, especially since the concept is “90 percent of what the production car will be,” according to a Honda source. Of course, we’re months away from a production version, and the proof is in the piloting, but the numbers are promising.
First, consider the 200-hp dohc i-VTEC engine, six-speed manual transmission and limited-slip differential. The current Si offers “only” 160 hp, a five-speed manual and an open diff. So the concept promises to be a better car right out of the box. The European Civic Si already has 200 hp, so if we want to get miffed about that, we have every right. But no other U.S.-market Civic—Si or otherwise—has ever offered as much manufacturer-supplied power or as many gears as this concept promises. And good news: That limited-slip diff means power won’t be wasted spinning the inside tire in the corner. Top it off with a suitable exhaust note, and Honda is halfway there.
The six-speed transmission may look impressive on the spec sheet, but it is likely in there to impress the EPA more than the target buyer. Corporate Average Fuel Economy ratings are very important to carmakers, and six-speed manuals get better mileage than fives. You never hear a street kid at an import drag race talking about swapping out his five-speed manual for a six.
One big unknown is curb weight—there was none listed for the concept. Horsepower means nada unless you know how much mass it has to haul. The current Si weighs 2782 pounds. That’s more than a 2710-pound Sentra SE-R Spec V, 2593-pound Focus and even 2530-pound Corolla. Let’s hope Honda trimmed something off the beltline to make the most of those 200 ponies.
There was no real suspension used on the concept since it’s just a pusher show car. Suspension on a production Si will most likely be a better-controlled version of the current Civic, which include struts in front and a multilink rear. Purists and poseurs alike mourned the loss of the upper and lower wishbones that used to control wheel travel in Civics; you could really feel the difference, they swore, and we swore with them.
Even if you couldn’t feel the difference, the tie-in with the Formula One cars and the vague belief that Civic suspension was taken from Honda’s racing efforts kept the faithful transfixed. The same engineers who were in the paddock at Monaco and Motegi built this car, was the hope and the assumption. The loss of the wishbones made many feel the Corolla-ization of the Civic had begun. But Honda promises better control of the struts in this next Civic. We will withhold judgment until we drive one.
The concept has 18-inch cast-aluminum wheels with 225/45 R-rated “high-performance” tires. These we can assume will at least be offered on a production version since even the Chevy Cobalt offers a set of 18-inch shoes. Four-wheel discs with four-piston Brembo calipers and cross-drilled rotors are on the concept—we don’t know if all four pistons will make production, but they look nice on the show stand.
Outside, the look is stunning—sharp lines and curved shapes lean eagerly forward like a mini-muscle car rumbling next to the Christmas tree. If the production version looks 90 percent as good as this concept, it won’t be mistaken for a pedestrian grocery fetcher, and certainly not anything from Toyota.
Inside: Well, there was no inside on the concept car… just black felt to hide that there was nothing there. Sort of like the wavy blond hair on Jessica Simpson.
So will the new Si get respect from the kids with spiky hair and baggy pants? Who knows? A vast majority of those kids don’t have any money and currently wait four or five model years until a cool car hits $8,000 or so and then buy it, blindly slapping in a case-blowing turbo. For these enthusiasts, the second-generation RX-7 or any 240SX is what they’re looking for now, with a honkin’ wing slapped on the back acting as an air brake. That was the way the original Civic and Integra became cool cars, when they entered the used-car market and still had solid blocks and tune-able heads.
Regardless, if this concept shows the direction Honda is headed, then it’s a good thing. It represents an about-face from the watering down and mass-marketization of what was the leader in high-tech and fun cars.
We say, welcome back, Honda.
Source
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101785
MARK VAUGHN
Posted Date: 2/10/05
The new Civic Si could return Honda to the glory days of the late ’80s and early ’90s when it ruled the sport compact scene, or at least bring it back as a frontrunner in what has, in the meantime, become a fairly crowded field of sport compact superheroes.
Honda all but created the modern sport compact scene with the Civic S in 1984, the Si in 1986 and the iconic CRX Si soon after that. (We still love that CRX Si.) Those early subcompact performance Hondas were simple, stylish cars that were lightweight, agile and fast—and remained fun to drive long after they depreciated into an inexpensive used car. Granted, there were sport compacts before the Civic Si (the Mini, the GTI, etc.—we know, please don’t write letters). But the Si created that fast and furious hubbub still with us today.
Then, in the mid-’90s, Honda began to drift away from the spiky-haired, budget boy racer who loved it and toward the more mainstream, mass-market buyer. Honda even identified this buyer (we are not making this up) as a 24-year-old named Jennifer. Other manufacturers stepped in to fill the subcompact performance void.
Honda has entered an Si in the market recently, but with this concept, Honda is making a loud statement that it is back. Can this new Civic Si return Honda to that glory?
This concept and some preliminary specs torn from Honda two weeks before the Chicago show suggest it can, especially since the concept is “90 percent of what the production car will be,” according to a Honda source. Of course, we’re months away from a production version, and the proof is in the piloting, but the numbers are promising.
First, consider the 200-hp dohc i-VTEC engine, six-speed manual transmission and limited-slip differential. The current Si offers “only” 160 hp, a five-speed manual and an open diff. So the concept promises to be a better car right out of the box. The European Civic Si already has 200 hp, so if we want to get miffed about that, we have every right. But no other U.S.-market Civic—Si or otherwise—has ever offered as much manufacturer-supplied power or as many gears as this concept promises. And good news: That limited-slip diff means power won’t be wasted spinning the inside tire in the corner. Top it off with a suitable exhaust note, and Honda is halfway there.
The six-speed transmission may look impressive on the spec sheet, but it is likely in there to impress the EPA more than the target buyer. Corporate Average Fuel Economy ratings are very important to carmakers, and six-speed manuals get better mileage than fives. You never hear a street kid at an import drag race talking about swapping out his five-speed manual for a six.
One big unknown is curb weight—there was none listed for the concept. Horsepower means nada unless you know how much mass it has to haul. The current Si weighs 2782 pounds. That’s more than a 2710-pound Sentra SE-R Spec V, 2593-pound Focus and even 2530-pound Corolla. Let’s hope Honda trimmed something off the beltline to make the most of those 200 ponies.
There was no real suspension used on the concept since it’s just a pusher show car. Suspension on a production Si will most likely be a better-controlled version of the current Civic, which include struts in front and a multilink rear. Purists and poseurs alike mourned the loss of the upper and lower wishbones that used to control wheel travel in Civics; you could really feel the difference, they swore, and we swore with them.
Even if you couldn’t feel the difference, the tie-in with the Formula One cars and the vague belief that Civic suspension was taken from Honda’s racing efforts kept the faithful transfixed. The same engineers who were in the paddock at Monaco and Motegi built this car, was the hope and the assumption. The loss of the wishbones made many feel the Corolla-ization of the Civic had begun. But Honda promises better control of the struts in this next Civic. We will withhold judgment until we drive one.
The concept has 18-inch cast-aluminum wheels with 225/45 R-rated “high-performance” tires. These we can assume will at least be offered on a production version since even the Chevy Cobalt offers a set of 18-inch shoes. Four-wheel discs with four-piston Brembo calipers and cross-drilled rotors are on the concept—we don’t know if all four pistons will make production, but they look nice on the show stand.
Outside, the look is stunning—sharp lines and curved shapes lean eagerly forward like a mini-muscle car rumbling next to the Christmas tree. If the production version looks 90 percent as good as this concept, it won’t be mistaken for a pedestrian grocery fetcher, and certainly not anything from Toyota.
Inside: Well, there was no inside on the concept car… just black felt to hide that there was nothing there. Sort of like the wavy blond hair on Jessica Simpson.
So will the new Si get respect from the kids with spiky hair and baggy pants? Who knows? A vast majority of those kids don’t have any money and currently wait four or five model years until a cool car hits $8,000 or so and then buy it, blindly slapping in a case-blowing turbo. For these enthusiasts, the second-generation RX-7 or any 240SX is what they’re looking for now, with a honkin’ wing slapped on the back acting as an air brake. That was the way the original Civic and Integra became cool cars, when they entered the used-car market and still had solid blocks and tune-able heads.
Regardless, if this concept shows the direction Honda is headed, then it’s a good thing. It represents an about-face from the watering down and mass-marketization of what was the leader in high-tech and fun cars.
We say, welcome back, Honda.
Source
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101785