Negotiating with the Dealer, how to get them to drop the price? - Acura TSX Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-01-2008, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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Negotiating with the Dealer, how to get them to drop the price?

I've visited a couple of dealerships here in Toronto and each time when negotiating the price, they seems to always bring out the invoice saying "this is how much we paid to buy the vehicle back from the owner/Honda, I can't go below this price". It didn't occur to me till after that most of these vehicles were off lease, so how would I negotiate it or fight back to try and get below the "invoice" cost cause I'm sure it's all baloney. I'm sure the dealers/salesperson can go below this cost but not quite sure what to say to get them to do it. On one occasion I was able to get the salesperson to do it.

2005 TSX was priced at $24,900 I told him I was looking at $21,000. He said it was too low and took out the invoice and it showed $24,000 saying if he went below that they would be losing money. I got up to leave and he told me to wait, he could drop it to $23,000 which was still more than what I wanted.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-01-2008, 02:22 PM
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Yeah, that's what they do. They wanna hit you for the highest buck, but if you threaten them and walk out they will go lower. You'll just have to find the right dealer to get that really low price. Some are willing to go lower than others and some just have more buying power. Helps if you dress professional and just make it look like your serious and well off. Do your research too. If you can bring prices from other dealers that show they are asking too much it may help.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-01-2008, 04:07 PM
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Check out what NADA and KBB say about it. If they are asking more then its worth then be like F that.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 01:16 AM
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Invoice is only used for selling new cars. If they're using the 2005 invoice price, ask them if the car is brand new with no miles or wear and tear. They can't sell you the car at the new car's price.

Lowballing may or may not help. It depends on the sales person. They are probably trying to sell the car at the highest KBB quote possible. They have alot of leeway. Dealers don't make money off new car sales...they make it off of trade-in's and used cars. They lowball the previous owner, then they turn around and try to sell it really high. With new cars, everyone is using the invoice and trying to get it as low as possible.

Remember, he's trying to make a commission off you. If you can't negotiate to the terms you want, give it up and try somewhere else. If you can't get it any lower, at least try to talk him into giving you something extra, like a protection package (clear bra, floor mats, etc.).

And remember, after you work out the deal, they make you talk to the finance manager next who will try to stiff you. Don't listen to his speech and go with your research.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 01:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCaliTrojan
If you can't negotiate to the terms you want, give it up and try somewhere else. If you can't get it any lower, at least try to talk him into giving you something extra, like a protection package (clear bra, floor mats, etc.).
Great point, I never thought of asking for extras, thank you
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 08:46 AM
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I know here in the states there is also dealers holdback price from the manufactuer so even if they sell the car at invoice they dealer still receives funds from the manufactuer for selling that car, usually a $1k per car, at least in my past research.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-03-2008, 02:23 AM
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Tell the saleman you want the sales manager to get the real invoice and you want half of their "HOLDBACK" money and then you will take it. Once they make w/ that real invoice you better be ready to buy the car. Dealers HATE when people make them show all their cards and stiff them on the sale. The first time I ask to see holdback my salesman got his manager who in turn came into the office, looked me in the eye and asked "So how do you know about holdback".

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-03-2008, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCaliTrojan
Invoice is only used for selling new cars. If they're using the 2005 invoice price, ask them if the car is brand new with no miles or wear and tear. They can't sell you the car at the new car's price.

Lowballing may or may not help. It depends on the sales person. They are probably trying to sell the car at the highest KBB quote possible. They have alot of leeway. Dealers don't make money off new car sales...they make it off of trade-in's and used cars. They lowball the previous owner, then they turn around and try to sell it really high. With new cars, everyone is using the invoice and trying to get it as low as possible.

Remember, he's trying to make a commission off you. If you can't negotiate to the terms you want, give it up and try somewhere else. If you can't get it any lower, at least try to talk him into giving you something extra, like a protection package (clear bra, floor mats, etc.).

And remember, after you work out the deal, they make you talk to the finance manager next who will try to stiff you. Don't listen to his speech and go with your research.
Anytime you involve a salesman, you also have to factor in his commission on the sale, which doesn't help you achieve the lowest bottom line possible. I have ALWAYS talked price (and never entered into any relationship with a salesperson - the kiss of death to your deal, IMO) with the fleet manager or sales manager (who is paid a salary and bonused on sales volume) who also has the authority to sell the car at any given price (thereby elimination any salesperson's commission). The finance manager's job is to upsell additional items, such as extended warranty, gap coverage, etc. on top of handling inhouse financing that he/she arranges (and may receive income on) on the already agreed sales price. They will try to hard sell you on this stuff! Keeping a minimum number of mouths to feed during this process and your knowledge of invoice and holdback data will help you achieve what you are looking for.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-03-2008, 10:30 PM
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We just showed our salesperson what edmunds.com said people should be paying and he gave us that. It was roughly $2000 below his first offer.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-05-2008, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizelbs
We just showed our salesperson what edmunds.com said people should be paying and he gave us that. It was roughly $2000 below his first offer.
Edmunds is closer to an average than a best case scenario. I paid $800 below Edmunds figure. But I doo have to say their number isn't bad though...its only $250 over invoice.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-05-2008, 11:35 AM
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Oh, if they put a dealer decal on tell them to either give you some kind of accessory or $$$ off. Why should you advertise their dealership?




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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-05-2008, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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I think Edmonds only shows American pricing, I'm in Canada. I was thinking, would setting the price point at the lease buy-out an optimal price? For example I know a 2005 TSX at the least buy-out is approximately $18,000 factoring tax would make it just over $20,000.

Generally I ask for about $2000-$3000 off, but the sales people all back off and say that it's way too much to take off, but if doing what I said above is half true then I will continue to stick by my price point
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-17-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryziegler
Anytime you involve a salesman, you also have to factor in his commission on the sale, which doesn't help you achieve the lowest bottom line possible. I have ALWAYS talked price (and never entered into any relationship with a salesperson - the kiss of death to your deal, IMO) with the fleet manager or sales manager (who is paid a salary and bonused on sales volume) who also has the authority to sell the car at any given price (thereby elimination any salesperson's commission). The finance manager's job is to upsell additional items, such as extended warranty, gap coverage, etc. on top of handling inhouse financing that he/she arranges (and may receive income on) on the already agreed sales price. They will try to hard sell you on this stuff! Keeping a minimum number of mouths to feed during this process and your knowledge of invoice and holdback data will help you achieve what you are looking for.

Also a good thing to ask is are they on comission or volume? A volume salesperson will go to invoice or lower to make the sale. They need #s of cars sold, not comissions. I got my wife a 2007 Honda Odyssey at invoice the 1st week they were out. Some dealers laughed out lod at me when I asked if they would go to invoice.

Secondly negotiate the intrest rate. He said I Qualified for 7%. I asked then abouot an extended warranty. I called service at another dealership and asked what it cost to replace the power door motors. Abbout $2K each. Then goto warranty direct.com,. you can get a quote for a warranty there.

Next I told him I would buy the extended warranty if they lowered the intrest rate, and sold me the warranty for 1/2.

Guess what, he did. They will quote you an intrest rate above what youa ctually qualify for, and they will still make money there. Then he still made some money on the warranty, but I am covered for an extra $800 BtoB and 7years 100K.

Remember you can always walk away and say thanks, but no thanks. For them it is a waste of their time not to make the sale with you if they could have made it with someone else.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-25-2008, 10:09 PM
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Dont listen to anything that they say. Who cares if they "loose money!" I care if I loose money. Will they sell the car for what you want is the question. I just bought an 05 TSX that sticker-ed at 24k for $18,300. Find several TSXs, play them against each other when you are talking price and be ready to walk away and go to the next one. They will chase you or call you several days later when the car has not sold. Dont feel stupid offering really low and working your way up to meet them in the middle. (I sell Real Estate...can you tell?) I would start with saying 16k out the door tax and title. You will love the reaction that you get! Then you have room to move up to what you want. Dont ever tell them what you want to spend, ever. If they reach the top of what you want to spend, dont go over, walk away. They kill people on the trade-ins and make the most money on those resales. Dont feel bad and stick to your guns on the price you want. Just to get the last word, I get a full tank of gas too! Also, consider the other fees at purchase and work that into your cost so you know what you are really paying out the door. Hope that helps a bit! I could go on for days about negotiation, thanks for the platform!
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-28-2008, 03:46 AM
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Sales department is seperate from parts and service.

Be sure to ask for service vouchers especially oil changes--> they just sign cards and give these out, you should probably be getting at least 2-3 or more.

Parts like floor mats and clear bra, rust proof are doable---> depending, if you are at acura woodbine, try to get them throw in the lip spoilers since they have it cheap anyways....

talk the salesperson into believing that you will be a returning customer if not, refer other people, just grab a friend or two with you that day, and say they're interested too. The prospect of 2 or 3 other sales opportunities will make them justify price/volume.

settling with CASH is always great leverage, look to your bank/line of credit with/auto loan-- interest rates are pretty decent now. If you have good credit, you will beat out financing %s. You win on the interest because the faster you pay it down, the less you pay, unlike financing/lease where everything is calculated into the total amount. And you also get to slash a bit off the retail price.


Good luck!
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