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Dyno Tuning vs. E-Tuning Review and Impressions

10K views 12 replies 4 participants last post by  phen8tk 
#1 ·
Hey fellow TSXers, if anyone is debating between getting a dyno tune vs. an e-tune, I have some answers that may help you. I recently got a Flashpro dyno tune, and soon after that, got a Flashpro e-tune from VitViper. Wasn’t completely happy with the dyno tune, and after reading many glowing reviews of Vit Viper’s services decided to do the e-tune as well.
In any case, here are my impressions that compare the 2 types of tuning processes.

Tuning Process
Dyno Tuning: Dyno tuning is very simple from the customer’s perspective. The tech straps your car to a dyno (in my case, it was a Dynapak dyno that mounted the car at the wheel hub), they do a series of WOT and partial throttle runs to capture live data logs with the Flashpro. Throughout the runs, the tech adjusts various parameters to eventually arrive with a calibration file with your car’s optimal performance output. This whole process, if done right, is very safe and is completed in less than 2 hours. Unfortunately, this service comes at at a high premium since my dyno tuner charges $500 to tune TSXs. Also, since the car is strapped to a dyno, you don’t get a real sense of how the car will actually handle on the road (which was why I wasn’t completely satisfied with the dyno tune). Fun fact, Doug Macmillan (president of Hondata) stopped by the shop and sat in my passenger seat while my car was on the dyno. He rolled in with his coveted white 2016 Civic 1.5L turbo that he’s been experimented with. Still regretted not taking a picture with him :-/.

E-Tuning: This process requires a lot more work from the customer. When you purchase the service, Vit will send you Flashpro calibration files that you load into your car. You will then enable the logging on your Flashpro and follow the driving instructions that Vit provides. Usually the instructions require you to either drive normally for 20-25 minutes, do a 3rd gear WOT, or a combination of both. Each time you submit a log, Vit will review it, provide updates to the calibration file, and you’ll repeat the whole process again with the new file loaded into your car. On average I received a new calibration file within 1-3 days, and even then, the whole process required more than 2 months with a total of 35 calibration files to finish my tune. If you need instant gratification, I would not recommend e-tuning unless you do not have a good local dyno tuner. This is particularly true in the beginning when it’s not safe for your engine to engage VTEC. You will also need to do some homework, and find a good stretch of road that is straight, clean, level, without traffic, and most importantly, without cops, to effectively do your 3rd gear WOT pulls. Unlike the dyno, doing WOT street pulls is not particularly safe especially if you live in dense urban areas. Despite that, since you are tuning on the streets that you drive on every day, it will result with a tune that is perfect for daily driving. Did I mention that he only charges $250 for his services?

Power Gains
From a power perspective, both methods provided modest power gains over the Flashpro out-of-the-box tuned map. Here are the power specs from the dyno tune:
• Before Dyno Tune = 203.88 HP and 172.67 lb-ft TQ
• After Dyno Tune = 213.58 HP and 183.39 lb-ft TQ
• Gains = +9.7 HP and +10.72 lb-ft TQ



For the e-tune, I was expecting lower power figures since the dyno tuner doesn’t have to build in as much margin with the calibrations as the e-tuner would. However to my surprise, the e-tune yielded almost the same performance results.



I would ignore the HP and torque numbers from the virtual dyno chart since I don’t think my car is getting 225 HP to the wheels. But what’s interesting is that the HP and torque curves are practically the same between the two tunes. What’s even more interesting is that the Air/Fuel ratio (AFR) is much leaner with the dyno tune (~13:1) than it is with Vit’s e-tune (~12.3:1) during WOT, even though it’s providing the same amount of power. I did some long-term data logging with the two tunes and found that the dyno tune calibration had more engine knocks than Vit’s e-tune. Granted, knocks from the dyno-tune were not enough to put my engine in the danger zone. For example, in a normal 30-minute drive, the dyno tune averaged about 3-6 knocks, while Vit’s e-tune averaged between 1-2 knocks. Needless to say, both tunes appear to be safe for our engines.

Customer Service and Driving Experience Post Tune
As mentioned before, I was not completely happy with my dyno tune. My main issue with it was that the throttle was way too sensitive for daily commuting. Just slightly tapping the accelerator in 1st gear would cause my car to jerk and jolt, making commuting in traffic a real pain. I brought this concern up with my dyno tuner, but their post-support was terrible, and they didn’t help me at all. The guy on the phone actually told me to go contact Hondata for help.

Now, I completely understand that the root of the problem is due to our crappy DBW throttle system, but I was certain that some tuning adjustments could be made to alleviate the throttle sensitivity. I then enlisted Vit’s help. Even before purchasing his e-tuning service, he gave me some solid advice to dull out the throttle sensitivity, which made the dyno tune more tolerable for daily driving. He was respectful, and you can tell that the man had Honda in his blood. I was so impressed that I ended up buying his e-tune services to see what else he can do to improve my ride. Strangely enough, he didn’t even bother using the dyno tune calibration as the base, instead, we went through the whole tuning process from scratch. Although the whole process was lengthy, his customer service was top notch, as he always responded back to my emails promptly, and never left me hanging. The final e-tune calibration file that I received offers the same power as the dyno tune, and is much more comfortable to drive on my daily commute.

Conclusion
Overall, I thought the $500 I spent with the dyno-tune was a waste of money, and if I were to do it all again, I would have just done the e-tune and called it a day. It’s nice that the dyno-tune gives you immediate gratification and provides you with a dyno graph to look at. Also, if I didn’t live in an area with loads of traffic, the dyno-tune would have worked out fine. However, when a customer has a concern after a service has been done, I would expect the provider to accommodate to ensure complete customer satisfaction. You will get that with Vit’s e-tuning service and I’m sure you’ll be as satisfied as I was. If you’re local to the Oregon area, the best-case scenario is to have Vit do both dyno and street tunes to really get an even more optimal result for your car.
 

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#2 ·
Good job on the excellent and very through review man! I'm in the process of a Vit eTune myself after previously being dyno tuned on Ktuner, I'll add to this thread with my impressions later. I'm more than certain my results will be similar to yours because throttle modulation on my dyno tune wasn't to my satisfaction either.

I will add though my local dyno tuners post-tune support was great, we just didn't feel the Ktuner platform was a up to par with Flashpro. It's possible that may have changed now though as when I used Ktuner it was pretty early in its release, I had the 6th ECU.


Did Vit enable 1st gear throttle damping on your cal?
 
#3 ·
Thanks! Would be great to see your feedback on this whole process. Hopefully you got a couple more calibration files from Vit since we last spoke.

I'm glad you got the post support from your tuners, since I was left out in the cold with mine. For whatever reason, they didn't seem all that interested in my business and I suppose tuning a 10 year old Acura with basic bolt-ons isn't very exciting work for them.

Both Vit and the dyno tuner enabled the 1st gear throttle dampening. But in addition to that, Vit also tuned the fuel cut delay setting and changed some other settings that he didn't disclose to make the throttle sensitivity much more tolerable. I wouldn't say that the throttle is perfect like a non-DBW system, but it's much better than what I used to have with the dyno tune.
 
#8 ·
Thanks! Would be great to see your feedback on this whole process. Hopefully you got a couple more calibration files from Vit since we last spoke.
Yeah the whole priority upgrade was a massive improvement in response time. We started with the first cal on 2/14/17 and by 2/21/17 we were only 2 cals deep. Granted weekend had fallen within those dates as well. I bumped up to priority on 2/23/17 and as of this moment 9pm on 2/27/17 we've busted out 12 total cals. Just started the 2000-7500 pulls, totally worth the extra $100. Hell from 4pm to 9pm just today we've done 3 cals/logs!

Edit : Just got the 4th cal for today at 930 pm. Off to log it!
 
#4 ·
That sucks your tunner wouldn't address and fix the DBW issue, after he adjusted it. It sounds like he wasn't very experienced with flashpro or TSX's possibly, which would make sense because tunning a TSX is a rare occasion for most people.
I still think your dyno tune has a better smoother curve then the e-tune though.

I plan on taking my car to Jeff Evans for a tune in a couple months, just need to gather up a few more parts. I'll definitely post my results to share.
 
#5 ·
I had my tune done at Church Automotive, and I know that they are very experienced at tuning Hondas. In fact, they do a lot of collaborations with Hondata since they're very close from each other. I have to say that our DBW system is probably the worst compared to other Hondas, so it's possible that they haven't figured out how to tune that out.

Regarding the dyno plot, even though dyno tune curves look better, I don't really feel much of a power difference when cruising around town. The differences are negligible from my butt dyno.

I've read great things about Jeff Evans, and I enjoy watching his Youtube series. He has one specifically for tuning K series engines if you haven't seen it yet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsKfCCVIv-Q


Just curious, what do you have installed now, and what do you plan to install prior to the tune?
 
#6 ·
I take back my previous statement, Churches auto are tunning gurus I think everyone has heard of them. Still sucks they wouldn't address the DBW issue, I even debated on adjusting mine before but it's a little more involved then I thought.

Not surprising you didn't notice a difference between the two tunes though at WOT. We could gain 10WHP or even 15WHP arguably and we probably still wouldn't even notice it on the butt dyno. I believe the weight of our cars distorts the performance gains from the butt dyno, and the stock gearing doesn't help either.

Yeah Jeff Evans is highly respected on the east coast tunning Hondas and he lives within a hour of my house which doesn't hurt either. He used to be booked for 6 months in advance, which is nuts. Thanks for the YouTube link, never seen it before.

Currently running:
Flashpro
3.5" intake with BPI velocity stack
RSP intake manifold
50 degree VTC gear
Street performance valve job
Hondata intake manifold gasket(meh)
PSR throttle body gasket(meh)

I'm going to be picking up a header shortly. Still debating the exhaust issue. Would like to run a single exit 3" exhaust but finding a happy medium with noise is my only concern.
 
#12 ·
i bought danny nguyen cgp supercharged tsx. i am actually very disappointed in the fact they either didnt know or realize the car has massive belt slip nore did they care.... to address the problem. they also locked the tune as well. i would not recomend church automotive for a tune.... i also would not recomend redzone race either...
 
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