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11' TSX Thoughts...

14K views 58 replies 5 participants last post by  Vogenitz69 
#1 ·
Hi Guy's,
My name is Bill and i recently purchased my lovely 2011 TSX k24 Auto w/ 19k Miles on it. Ive been driving it around a little over a month now and absolutely love the car. Great balance of comfort and performance for a stock car! Now that I've had it for a while I've decided to look forward to modding it.
My all time favorite things to build are sleepers. An example might be my Ford Ranger. 300HP 5.0 v8 5 speed with a quiet true dual exhaust, pieced together street-friendly aftermarket suspension components. Always a surprise off the light...
I'd really like to do something similar to my ranger with my TSX. Ive already decided on the CT Supercharger for the power. Planning on running between 8-10 PSI for a good balance of power/reliability.
The real reason i posted in this section, however, is to ask opinions on my ideas on a set uo..
Since the stock tires already slip a little off the line and when spiriting through corners i thought with a supercharger it would only make sense to have as much traction as possible. I plan on running 245/45R17 Michelin Pilot A/S 3's up front. These are a tad smaller than stock diameter but obviously wider. For the rear i want to run 235/50R17 Michelin Premier A/S which are a tad taller and wider than stock. This is going to change the departure angles a tad and also change up the weight distribution as well (more weight on the front tires). To combat the exaggerated rake the new tire set up will cause, id like to drop the rear a tad. Maybe not full out springs since i don't want to sacrifice any ride quality, but a great candidate (i hope - opinions appreciated) would be higher quality shocks. Ive been looking in to the Koni Sport (yellow) adjustable shocks. With these id like to put the rear on the lowest setting and the front on the softer/neutral setting. Making the car sit either stock height or maybe a 1/4 inch lower.. What do you guys think of this set up? Think it will fit my needs without much or any negative compromising?
 
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#2 ·
Congrats on the vehicle.

Looks like you have a pretty logical plan going with your build. Just remember the hidden costs of Flashpro and tuning needed with boost.

I'm one to run square tires my cars unless RWD. I have no idea what running smaller tires in the back will do for driveability. Could always try a stiffer/thicker rear sway bar if you just wanted to change the driving characteristics.

Koni Yellows are nice, but pricey for stock ride height. Kind of a waste to get them and pair it with stock springs. Tein H Techs are a ~1" drop, but if you use the upper perch of the Koni's, it should still give you your desired look with a bit of shock/spring performance.

Just my thoughts. Look forward to your build and progression!
 
#3 ·
Congrats on the vehicle.



Looks like you have a pretty logical plan going with your build. Just remember the hidden costs of Flashpro and tuning needed with boost.



I'm one to run square tires my cars unless RWD. I have no idea what running smaller tires in the back will do for driveability. Could always try a stiffer/thicker rear sway bar if you just wanted to change the driving characteristics.



Koni Yellows are nice, but pricey for stock ride height. Kind of a waste to get them and pair it with stock springs. Tein H Techs are a ~1" drop, but if you use the upper perch of the Koni's, it should still give you your desired look with a bit of shock/spring performance.



Just my thoughts. Look forward to your build and progression!

Thank you man. The idea behind the different tire size is something I learned with a CRV on a corner a couple years ago. It's about weight distribution for traction. Wider tires distribute weight over a larger plane making slippage easier when weight is shifted. This happens a lot in the rear end of front wheel drive vehicles where there is barely any weight above the rear axle. When using a narrower tire in the rear the car can more effectively use the little weight it has to press down the smaller tires against the ground to create more traction.
Also the konis on the stiffest setting in the rear should help with the squating off the line which should give it more traction to get going. Which is also why I want a wider performance tire in the front so it can more effectively put the power to the ground and handle corners when the weight shifts rather than squeal around each bend
 
#4 ·
Stiffening your rear Konis will make squat worse. Koni yellow damping ONLY adjusts rebound force. The bump damping is set and does not change with the knob. You will also be packing down the suspension over bumps.

If you run Koni yellows on full stiff...you need an extremely heavy rate spring to rebound the shock quickly enough. This is no good for ride quality.

Better traction can be had with wider/better tires. I wouldn't do a different diameter tire front/rear as it will make your traction control and ABS overly sensitive.

245/45/17 is about the same diameter as your stock 225/50/17. There's a 4mm difference. So...under 1/4". So...nothing.

235/50, however, 3/8" larger in diameter. That makes quite a difference visually and functionally.

Using a wider wheel and good 245mm tires will curb wheel spin and make the car handle better. Buying a proper suspension will also help. Koni yellows on stock springs is a bit of a waste of $$. Better than stock...*maybe*. But there are better options for close to the same price.

Does it snow where you live? Do you plan to use the same tires year round?
 
#5 ·
Yes it does snow here. I'm from NJ so I get all 4 seasons, so I try to pick tires capable year round.

I guess my problem is that I don't want to lower the car. Maybe 1/2" at most since, again, I live in NJ with the worst roads in the country. I rarely find myself going through deep rumble strips, but the occasional & unavoidable pothole(s) do happen on my commutes.
 
#7 ·
Hmm...yeah, there aren't too many aftermarket suspensions that will keep the car 1/2"lower than stock. I mean....they will...but your adjuster will top out and the car may not ride as well.

Your goals are to reduce front wheel spin, and increase cornerning capacity without lowering the car or losing ride quality, correct?

245/45 is way too wide for the stock wheels, unfortunately. The sidewall will bulge over and you'll lose steering response....and the tires will pull the car over road irregularities. 225/50 is borderline on the stock 7.5" wheel width.

Any consideration of buying a larger/wider wheel and tire package for summer? And just using your all seasons or buying snow tires on stock wheels for winter?
 
#9 ·
18's look/work well on these cars. 245/40/18 should be plenty of sidewall to keep the car comfortable and resist potholes. Continental DW's are great for the summer and have more traction than the stock tires.

Bridgestone WS80's or Contiental Si's are snow tires that will work better than stock in the winter months.

Its may be a worthwhile expenditure in terms of meeting your goals. Its the way I went. I also lowered the car...but because I wanted to improve the ride over stock AND be lower than stock.

I have 18x8.5's with 245/40/18 Contiental DW in summer.
Stock wheels with 215/55/17 Bridgestone WS80's for snow.

Car is still comfy, quiet, etc. But handles, brakes, and accelrates better than stock in any kind of weather.
 
#11 ·
ST ST-X. They're made (in germany) by KW suspensions. Thats what is on the wagon. The wagon is actually my GF's.

Tein Street Advance (made in Japan) coilovers on my 1G. That car has 225/45/17 pilot sport SS for summer on 17X8 TL-S wheels and 225/45/17 Continental EW's on base model TL wheels for snow. It also has a TL-S rear sway bar.

A rear sway bar is something else I'd recommend. Makes the steering response much better.

The suspension on either car is better than stock in terms of ride and handling. The Teins are the softer riding of the two setups. The ST's are more controlled, though.

The summer tires on both exploit the suspension very well...and they're quiet and work really well in rain.
 
#13 ·
They're both height adjustable. And 1" is the smallest advertised drop by both companies. Meaning that without over-adjusting, they can both drop the car from like -1 inch to -2.x".

I have written a fairly thorough DIY thread with pics and reviews. Lmk if you'd like a link to see it.

Based on what you're describing, I think the Teins may be better suited for your use. They're inexpensive, have all the right features for a street car, and they're a bit softer edged than the ST's. A big advantage for salty road cars is that the Teins are powdercoated, and not zinc plated. Much better corrosion resistance. Plus the damping is adjustable. And...unlike the Konis...the knob adjusts bump AND rebound. So you can dial out rear squat a little bit by turning the knob to stiff.
 
#14 ·
The link would be much appreciated!
Yeah I was reading up on some springs. Tein and H&R springs seem to be the best reviewed. I have noticed that the H&R/Koni set up is pretty popular on these cars. I wonder if Bilstein offers a shock for the TSX? I run Bilsteins on all my trucks and cars and they are great out the box on all my applications
I will read more in to Tein however as salt is a big issue here since Gov Christie likes to dump it on the slight chance of hitting 40* F
 
#15 ·
Unfortunately, they do not make Bilsteins for 2nd gen TSX's. That was my first choice as well.

I'm not a huge fan of Koni Yellows. They have some good features. But...for street use, and for refinement, there are way better choices.

Look more into the Tein Street Advance. They're cost effective, they ride very well, they have great features for a street system, and the company does actual R&D before making/releasing products. The quality is high.

I have bought a few sets of Tein SA's from thmotorsports.com for a few different cars. CALL your order in, though. Last I checked, Tein SA's were around $600 shipped, on sale. Don't let the low price fool you into thinking that they're junk. They're low on features, but the quality is there. Features is what you'd want to give up if you were looking for a cost effective system.

Heeltoe carries them as well. Heeltoe's reputation is great, and I'm sure they can recommend the SA's or advise you in a different way.

I think that they have quite a few advantages over Koni yellows and lowering springs.

Here is my installation guide (step by step) for a 2G TSX. First the install. Then the review/comparisons. Then pics of the car.

Coilover DIY, review, and pics. KW ST's on TSX wagon. - Honda-Tech
 
#16 ·
Gotta be honest man, that wagon is sitting PERFECT. That's about as low as I'll go. That's with the ST's, are the Teins similar drop? Comfier ride as well with the Teins like you said... I also like those wheels too. Reusing the Acura centers is sweet too. Nice "oem" look... At least to the untrained eye!
 
#20 ·
I am not sure what the adjust ability of the rear is on the TSX, but you could accomplish a lot of what you are looking to do with the rear end (without running staggered tire sizes) by adjust the alignment properly. Low camber (-.2 to -.6) and a little toe out in the rear will increase the rotation of the rear and you would still be able to rotate tires properly.


Holden- Just to be clear, that wagon is on the Teins, what is the offset on those wheels, and what tire size? Any issues with the rear rubbing?

Those are tempting coilovers. I ran Tein Flex on my Subaru, they are a quality product.
 
#21 ·
More negative camber combined with toe out will eat up tires. Adding negative camber to the rear will add understeer. Toe out will make it tend to oversteer...so they may cancel each other a bit.

Straightening the rear toe (factory calls for toe IN) will help rotate a little, but the car may be unstable on the highway or tend to wander a bit.

I have ST's on the wagon. Teins are on my 1G sedan. The wheels on the wagon are 18x8.5 +38. I have 245/40/18 Contiental DWs on it now. I had 225/45/18 Direzza Z2's on it for about a month. They were too loud/harsh. The new Continentals are amaaaazing in terms of ride and quietness.

No rubbing anywhere. I left camber as it lay. I think I ended up at -0.5 up front and -2.5 in back. If I corrected the rear camber to factory spec, I would have to roll the fender lips. But...I probably will not roll lips since the car is driven year round in the salt. So the camber will always be around where it is.

Here are pics of how much clearance I had with 225's.



And now with 245's:


 
#24 ·
Mine is dropped like 1.5". I'm not sure I'd recommend much higher than that. You'll start pre-compressing the main spring more than you'd want to eventually.

One thing I would recommend if buying wider wheels with an offset like mine:
Make sure the rear rock guard is in good shape. Its a clear plastic strip. If its not there...you will get rock chips like CRAZY...and it will take the paint off very quickly. I ended up buying a set of Acura mudflaps. Found a brand new set (in white) for $50 shipped, in Acura boxes lol.
 
#27 ·
Stoptech SP for pads. Pick a blank rotor for rotors.

Drilled rotors only help performance in a situation where you'd like to sacrifice rotor area for weight savings. On very large/thick rotors that have enough surface to cope with the added heat from drilling holes in the rotor.

Blank rotors run cooler than drilled ones and offer better braking.

There's no chance you're going to put enough heat into a blank TSX rotor to crack them on the street. So high end slotted rotors won't do anything more for you.

Pads is where you should be focusing. Stoptech SP's are a little dusty. They're about identical to Yellowstuff in terms of dust and performance and response. They're even made from the same material. But stoptechs are about $45/axle on rockauto. EBC's cost like 3X as much. I've had both. Get the Stoptech for sure.

Centric makes a decent rotor. But any rotor will work fine for street use anyway.

If you're getting drilled/slotted rotors for looks, then that would be your call. For actual performance, you'll do better with blanks.
 
#32 ·
Good info in here, i'm looking at a 2012 TSX SE and will probably be doing Tanabe NF210 springs for now. I have ST coilovers on my FRS right now and wish i had kept my Swift/Bilstein springs and shocks. I actually am wanting to trade it for the TSX for comfort and reliability reasons.
 
#34 ·
I *might* be a proponent of selling these ST's to go back to stock to possibly trade the car. They're not even a year old. Lmk if anyone is interested.

They're great for DD and definitely will work on a track. Ultra controlled and smooth.

Just hashing my options currently. No big deal either way.
 
#35 ·
Figured I'd update this thread since most people don't come back with results...
I ended up picking up a TEIN Street Basis coilover kit for the car. Dropped it about 1.5-1.8" up front and the back is about 1.3-1.5" for now. The ride is impeccable. Stiff when it needs to be and soft when you don't expect it (not talking about erectile disfunction)... My daily commute became a lot more fun. Taking more back roads than ever.

After that I ended up ordering the RV6 downpipe for the car. Actually installed it today! Gotta get used to the rasp, there's no doubt it's there, but it's not unbearable. Just wouldn't expect that sound out of a branded "luxury" car. Decided on an exhaust set up for the near future... Originally I wasn't going to mess with the exhaust but after a few weeks of looking in to the CT S/C kit I found that the biggest issue with going for the larger pulley is that the stock CAT can't handle the heat and ends up burning out and causing more problems than it's worth. That led me to RV6 since that gets rid of the cat all together and is a very easily reversed mod that has tons of performance potential!
Next up will be the wheel/tire's. That won't happen until late April-may. When the roads are finally salt free and the weather is nice! Supercharger won't come until after November since that's when the car gets its first inspection under my name. Since November is beginning of winter that means the car won't actually be supercharged until early spring unfortunately but that also gives me plenty of time to gather up all the supportive mods to make things run right the first time!

Thank you guys very much. Your insight was extremely helpful
 
#36 ·
Another update... Partially installed my exhaust solution for the RV6 rasp... Swapped out the stock mufflers for some Magnaflow 11225's. You can barely tell it's a rasp anymore! The car just makes a deep bass-like tone with the slightest bit of "rumble". The rasp is pretty much gone, but you can definitely tell that the volume of the set up goes up between 2500-3000. Tomorrow afternoon I will be installing a Vibrant 1141 Resonator. Usually when someone install's an RV6 pipe the most common cure to the rasp is the 1141 so I imagine it will act as a damper to keep the car quieter by a couple decibels.
So far with just the magnaflows i am thoroughly impressed with the sound quality coming from a 4 cyl. It's no V8, but it sure is a modern-sporty note
 
#37 ·
Added the resonator about a month ago. Car did in fact quiet down a little bit. Still sounds nice and the 2500-3000k noise has gone away. The car is still pretty loud and has some drone but it's not unbearable. I daily this around town and it doesn't bring any unwanted attention. Eventually I'm going to throw another resonator on just to make it a tad quieter but I'm in no rush. Next up is the Enkei wheels. Still need to order the the TPMS's for the wheels and obviously have the tires installed. Going with the Continental DWS 06's over the Michelins.
The real save starts now however. The supercharger jar is going to be my main focus for the next couple months so the car modding will probably stagnant for now! Thanks for all the insight so far guys


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#38 ·
Update for whoever's interested and made it this far..

Had the wheel/tire combo installed yesterday. Everything fit perfectly with an exception of the stock center caps not fitting in the enkei wheels.
I am beyond impressed with these tires. They fit the suspension so well it's remarkable. A back-road bend I used to take at 45mph stock, now can be confidently taken at 70mph. The ride is great for low profiles. The car does NOT lose traction anymore. Plus I managed to shave 5lbs off each wheel so the car is already showing better MPG, faster acceleration, and vtec is actually a bit more noticeable when passing on the highway.

~pics~



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#39 ·
New wheels and tires look great. Which model of Enkei? My Raijins took the OEM center caps just fine. It took a little squeezing because of the additonal powder coat thickness.

I have since made my own carbon fiber overlay flat face caps to fit all 4 wheels. Its a very tight squeeze to get them on...but they've been on there for a few months.





I have also gone with Tein SA coilovers to soften up the ride a bit as compared to the ST-X.

I ran into some trouble with the Teins, though. The rear suspension was too low and I couldn't get the adjuster to go higher. Tein said this was a known limitation on wagons and offered to sell me 330LB springs to replace the 280's. I opted to have my friend CNC me a 6061 T6 (overkill) spring spacer that he decided to get dimensionally accurate within .001" even though my print spec'd .010 to .030 tolerances lol. What a weirdo.

The car sits/rides fantastic now. No new pics unfortunately.

I will say that I miss how well the ST-X control the body motions. The Teins don't do nearly as well at that aspect. But the Teins do ride better. In hindsight, I probably could have had the best of both worlds by using softer springs on the front of the STX and lowering the car a bit to soften the ride overall. I luckily have a plethora of springs from previous builds on various cars....and happened to have 600LB (11K) springs that were dimensionally perfect for the STX. I tried lowering the front spring rate to 600LB and they did help. I think that 570ish would have been the sweet spot for a 4cyl TSX. The stock STX 660's are probably a little better suited to the V6 model.

But...since I had already bought the Teins for next to nothing (I have a friend who worked for an authorized dealer), I decided to just try them out and sell the ST.
 
#40 ·
To be honest I think the front is riding great at middle setting, the back tends to bounce a little bit but that's probably because the rear is at the highest setting probably over extending the shock at times. If I drop the rear .5" I think I'll have it right in the sweet spot. The thing just takes bends and corners with the new set up. I have yet to get the tires to spin or chirp really and it's been pretty crappy weather the last two days.

This is the part # (467-885-6538BK) I tried forcing the stock caps in but it was really tough and it kept snapping out. So rather than leave the hub open to the weather I just threw on the enkei caps that came with the wheels until I can find a more oem looking solution. Once I clean the thing up I'll try and get some better quality pictures going. Now that the car is pretty much caught up on cosmetics, phase 2 aka the supercharger build will begin, at least putting away some good money toward it.
 
#41 ·
You could just dremel or die grind the wheel bore a little bit in order to fit your caps. If my dremel wasn't broken, I'd be doing that...and as soon as I remember to buy a new one, I will open them up a bit.

The rear of my car is about as high...or a bit higher than yours. I haven't experienced any bouncing. But that may be because I have SA's. But then again.....they're set pretty soft.
 
#42 ·
You may not be experiencing the bounce since you have some more weight back there. Mine just seems to throw itself in to a bounce when hitting a light-medium sized dip/bump in the road going around 30-45mph. It's only one bounce but it comes off kind of violent when the rear bounces upward, like the car gets yanked back down rather than absorbing the impact.
 
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