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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've had my TSX since last July and finally drove it in the rain yesterday (HTB?) and noticed a few differences I'm not sure I like?

#1 - When using the wipers and trying to perform a single "swipe" you must "lift" the wiper stalk up. Doesn't it seem counter intuitive or am I used to older Hondas where you would press down instead?

#2 - I accidentally hit the high beam flash to pass which I never used before. There too I found it was "back asswords" compared with old Hondas. Instead of pulling the stalk toward yourself, you must push it outward? What's up with all this?

Has Honda actually done studies to determine if this is more ergonomic? Or have suppliers dictated these designs to cut costs and now all current car manufacturers have adopted them?

While we are on the subject, what about window switches? Does anyone really prefer these newer switches that seem to cause you to rotate your hand in an awkward or unnatural motion in order to operate?

I still prefer the old "toggle" style. You could rest your thumb or flex your index finger against it and easily alternate between up and down instantly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
OK, forget item 2, just checked and "flash to pass" does work similar to previous generations. The difference is when squeezing the switch immediately before it clicks, you now can squeeze it all the way without fear of setting the high beams on.

I now see why this arrangement is actually better than the previous setup. In older models you could set the high beams on by mistake. This was due to "squeezing" the stalk too hard and "clicking" on the high beams.

This condiiton would not be noticeable unless you turned on the headlights (unless of course the headlights were already on).

So, I stand corrected, this setup is actually superior or an improvement! :thumbsup:

But I still stand by Item #1 which doesn't feel right! :p
 

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Hmm...I've never owned a Honda/Acura before, but all the cars we have their highbeams work like the TSX, pull foward to flash and push out to turn on. Except for our '88 olds where you have to turn it on and off quickly to flash someome.

The wiper swtich is different than our other cars. It took me a day or two to get used to the single wipe feature of flipping the switch up. Though I still have trouble with the intermitten. It goes the other way with my '98 Oldsmobile...but no biggie. Plus it doesn't help that the stalk is right behind the wheel so I can't really see the setting from where I'm sitting.

I think the window switches are a Japanese thing...we have the same switches with our Corolla and Solara. They seem to be ergonomical cause you just have to bend your wrist to get a finder underneath the switch and pull up to open a window. It does seem odd at first though. I know it helps me because of where the rear window switches are in relation to where my hand rests.

But I really wish they gave the driver side the same door lock switch as the passenger side. Along with that extra door handle too :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
You just brought up an interesting point I hadn't consciously thought about before.

The method of operation of the controls is not necessarily bad, but it’s only when you compare them against another car that you notice the difference and develop a preference or bias.

Hmmm, maybe I could use this as the basis for a thesis?

BTW, you're right about the window switches being a "Japanese thing." The previous design I discussed was widely used by almost all the Asian car makers.

When the current design was implemented, everyone had it in their new models around the same time. As I said, these are sourced by a supplier and not made by Honda. This is the case for all car manufacturers. They generally buy items such as these from the same source.
 

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I had a prior Civic and I find the TSX wiper control (which is shared with some other Hondas) to be a serious downgrade in terms of ergonomics. My Civic had a wiper stalk which was rotated to set int-low-high, pull in for spray, push down for mist. With the TSX:

- it's too easy to overshoot the setting you want
- the up direction is awkward to use
- you can't "add" a quick mist-wipe in between intermittent wipes, since it means turing the wiper off first.

At least the TSX has smart intermittent wipers. When stopped, the wipers revert to the slowest intermittent setting, does a single wipe when you release the brakes, and resumes regular operation above 20 km/h.
 

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I've seen this type of window switches on Japanese cars since the early 90's. I too wish the power lock control s on the door and consistent between the driver and passenger.

While were on the subject of controls:

- I totally love how well designed the mirror control is. In either left or right settings, the square knob is aligned the cardinal directions. It's very intuitive how the control changes the mirrors. In the middle "locked" position, the control has diagonal facings and doesn't move.

- the trip and brightness knobs on the instrument panel are anarchosims from days where those were mechanical controls that actuated a mechanical trip meter. They need to be moved.

- everyone complains about the Honda moonroof switch location, and I agree with them. Not because they're not on the roof, but they are a bit of a stretch. They need one-touch open / close.

- OTOH, I think the VSA switch is well located, since it shouldn't be easy to reach.

- the AT shifter is another clever design. It doesn't have a button, but the springs in the shifter, combined with the gate maze duplicate the lockout button. Going from R > N > D and D > N doesn't require the button on the a regular shifter. But going from N > R > P and D > D3 does require the button. The TSX shifter is sprung to push the lever left, so you acutally only need to apply backward or forward force to go from R > N > D, or D > N. No sideways force is needed, because the springs snap the lever left to the next part of the gate. But going from N > R and R > P, and D > D3, you need to push the shifter right, against the spring force, as well as forward or backward. It's tough to explain, but easier to demonstrate in the car itself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
kiteboy said:
I've seen this type of window switches on Japanese cars since the early 90's. I too wish the power lock control s on the door and consistent between the driver and passenger.

While were on the subject of controls:

- I totally love how well designed the mirror control is. In either left or right settings, the square knob is aligned the cardinal directions. It's very intuitive how the control changes the mirrors. In the middle "locked" position, the control has diagonal facings and doesn't move.


- everyone complains about the Honda moonroof switch location, and I agree with them. Not because they're not on the roof, but they are a bit of a stretch. They need one-touch open / close.

I took two items from your post to respond to.

Since you mentioned the power mirror control, this is probably me reverting back to old Honda days but again the old style switch seemed simpler and quicker to operate especially going from left to right sides.

A slide switch to set left or right and nice large square button that may have been as intuitive and easier to operate.

Definitely agree on the moonroof switch, I like it just where it is. But you are right, it needs to have a one-touch feature.

While we're at it, maybe a future mod for the windows would be in order. How about a interior switch that allows all windows up and down. Since this can be done through the door lock or remote, I could see a nice switch next to the VSA that would allow for the same thing? 1blue1.gif
 

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I love where the moonroof switch is on the TSX. The first time I saw the moonroof switch there was on an old Integra... I wished my Olds was that way cause I don't like reaching for it on the roof and someone behind me thinking I'm flipping them off (actually happened to me). I really like the way the controls for it is set up though...one button for closing.

I wonder if there's a way to wire the moonroof to close when you close all windows with the key from the outside, since there is a single button to close the moonroof.
 

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Yes, it must depend most of all on what we're coming from and what we're used to. None of the things that are being mentioned here ever seemed problematic to me, and I never even thought that they might be unusual or remarkable -- but then again I've had nothing but Acuras for the last 16 years! But, I don't recall any of these things throwing me originally either, when I was coming from a BMW.

Exception: The moonroof controls -- I absolutely agree.

About the window controls: I don't even know what y'all are talking about! Those controls have always seemed completely normal to me, and I can't even imagine how the motion is unnatural or awkward.

The wiper controls likewise have always seemed fine to me. As for the "single wipe" thing, I'm not sure I'm remembering the "developmental history" exactly right, but, I think my old Legend had the same settings as the TSX except it didn't have the "single wipe," so, for me that was just an EXTRA BONUS, on top of (literally, I guess) the other settings. And I knew the other settings real well, so this new "bonus" setting, which is on top, isn't at all hard to keep track of, because it's just the "new" thing, and it's in a place that didn't exist before.

Yes, I guess it's what we're coming from. But, as I said, for some reason those things didn't stand out to me (except moonroof controls) even when I first came to Acura.

I guess Acura is the brand for me. :D
 

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I do miss the car being able to spray the windshield without turning on the wipers. Sometimes the windshield is extra dirty so I like to "soak" it before using the wipers. But seeing how the TSX likes to splash the excess liquids all over the windshield, maybe it's better this way.

Also, half of the features mentioned above are NEW to me so I wouldn't know what the normal position would be.

Never had moonroof before.
Never had power mirrors before.
Never had VSA before.

Everything on the TSX seems golden to me as a result. :p
 

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hip said:
IA slide switch to set left or right and nice large square button that may have been as intuitive and easier to operate.

While we're at it, maybe a future mod for the windows would be in order. How about a interior switch that allows all windows up and down. Since this can be done through the door lock or remote, I could see a nice switch next to the VSA that would allow for the same thing? 1blue1.gif
I always found the old mirror switch a bit fiddly - I could never tell at a glance (i.e. while driving) which position the switch was in. I also found that the clicks were too close together, whereas the knob you need to twist a full 45 deg. between each stop. Maybe I'm an old school video gamer, but I prefer joysticks to d-pads anyday :D

The "all open/close" function could be as simple as holding both front window switches at the same time.

A have a friend with a 9-3 and he tells me that the European Saabs include the moonroof as part of the all-close function, but it's disabled in NA because of liability concerns. Apparently, dealers can enable the function if you ask. I'm not sure if this also applies to the Euro Accord / TSX.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
kiteboy said:
The "all open/close" function could be as simple as holding both front window switches at the same time.

A have a friend with a 9-3 and he tells me that the European Saabs include the moonroof as part of the all-close function, but it's disabled in NA because of liability concerns. Apparently, dealers can enable the function if you ask. I'm not sure if this also applies to the Euro Accord / TSX.
I was referring to having all 4 windows operating simultaneously.

As for the sunroof, my friend's Mini Cooper has the power moonroof operating with the windows via the keyfob and has the one-touch feature inside.
 

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Here's another quirk...if you have fog lights, they only come on when the headlights come on.

With my Olds, I can turn on all the interior lights by a switch by the driver. But this feature seems to be missing on all the Japanese cars I've been in. Though in my Olds, I can't turn off the interior lights when I leave my doors open :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
TSX 'R' US said:

With my Olds, I can turn on all the interior lights by a switch by the driver. But this feature seems to be missing on all the Japanese cars I've been in. Though in my Olds, I can't turn off the interior lights when I leave my doors open :D
That could be a defect, after all it is an Olds? :rolleyes:
 

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hip said:
I was referring to having all 4 windows operating simultaneously.
I meant the car could be programmed to recognize pushing both front switches as an all-close command, and do all 4 windows + moonroof. That way, no additional switches (i.e. cost) need to be added.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
kiteboy said:
I meant the car could be programmed to recognize pushing both front switches as an all-close command, and do all 4 windows + moonroof. That way, no additional switches (i.e. cost) need to be added.
Good point, but what are we going to do with all those blank spaces next to sunroof and VSA buttons?
 
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