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Drove out these 2 days and saw all the big (deep) ponds along the sidewalks in Vancouver/Richmond. Do you guys think any car w/ CAI will get stall on the road from getting water into the CAI?
 

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moTSX said:
Drove out these 2 days and saw all the big (deep) ponds along the sidewalks in Vancouver/Richmond. Do you guys think any car w/ CAI will get stall on the road from getting water into the CAI?
nope .. at least not for me .. ~ plus i got the drycharger .. so i dont ever worry abt it .. ~
the thing is ... ~ u wont got hydrolock in 99%of the cases ... ~ people just worrys too much ... it only happen if the whole filter is under water .. ~which i hardly think anyone will drive through such deep ponds .. ~ :idea:
and i think the car will crash cuz the hydroplane b4 the engine gets fuked up with the suxing water .. ~~
that is just my own experince .. ~ had a really bad experince with hydro plane .. but i made it .. ~ and nthing happens to the intake .., ~
 

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:nod:

Injen CAI here... no problem at all. Have been using CAI for my accord, and not TSX. I have never seen a water pond that is like 1 feet high. Well... I avoid going thru those anyways, don't u? :)
 

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yup ... if u are really worry abt it .... u can go buy the AEM bypass ..
then u will be fine under any situations .. ~ :)
 

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Well, I'm here to tell you, I didn't think it would happen either, and it did. I was using a Knight Engineering 'Iceman' intake on my wife's 2.4-swapped Neon. It was even shortened to sit up above the automatic transmission instead of way down by the chin, so the filter element was at least 18 inches off the ground. The filter itself was about 8 inches long and oriented vertically, which means that the top of the filter was about 2 feet above the pavement.

We had flash flooding here with standing water on the streets. She was trying to get through to pick up our kids (daycare was closing early from the storms). There was only one route she could take, and it had standing water. She drove into a stretch that was at most a foot deep and 50 feet wide.

Even being careful, the intake sucked up about a pint of water and hydrlocked the engine. It bent at least 2 connecting rods and there was oil in 2 of the cylinders when I pulled the plugs. I couldn't get the engine to turn over at all.

That's why we have a TSX in the first place - to replace the totalled Neon.

Now, if you have the bypass valve, you're probably OK. I wouldn't trust a dry filter covering. If you are very careful, the chances are you won't have a problem. But anyone who tells you you're perfectly safe and will never have a problem is wrong.
 

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did u underestimate the depth of the water pond?
b/c if the filter is 1.5 feet above ground and the water is only 1 foot deep, there is no way it has enough power to suck the water up.

I tried applying 100kPa vacuum and it was not enough to suck water up unless the tube is touching the surface.

anyways, the deepest I have seen locally is around 1 foot. I wouldn't say it is impossible, but VERY unlikely to get hydro lock.
 

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SAZABI said:
did u underestimate the depth of the water pond?
b/c if the filter is 1.5 feet above ground and the water is only 1 foot deep, there is no way it has enough power to suck the water up.

I tried applying 100kPa vacuum and it was not enough to suck water up unless the tube is touching the surface.

anyways, the deepest I have seen locally is around 1 foot. I wouldn't say it is impossible, but VERY unlikely to get hydro lock.
No, because I waded into the water to retrieve the car. It was well below knee deep.

You are correct in saying that the intake will not have enough power to suck up the water - if you assume the water is a perfectly flat surface. But don't forget that as the car moves through the water it makes a bow wave like a boat - and so do cars coming the other way. There's no way to know what's getting scooped up under the hood.

Again, with a bypass valve, you're probably OK. But my lunched engine is proof that it's not going to be 100% safe.
 

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Duke said:
Now, if you have the bypass valve, you're probably OK. I wouldn't trust a dry filter covering. If you are very careful, the chances are you won't have a problem. But anyone who tells you you're perfectly safe and will never have a problem is wrong.
Couldn't have said better. And yes, if you do hydrolock. It's not anyone giving you undue advice or opinions but you yourself to deal with. And this is not covered under warranty. So, do pay attention and take serious care. When you think it's "going to hydrolock", it's already/often too late to reverse the consequence.
 

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I can't stand it when people say it's safe to drive with a cai without the bypass, and people that say the bypass is useless and just sucks up hot air... thats not true!

The bypass was designed to draw air in only when the filter has a restriction force (like water) greater than the bypass tuned restrition force level.

I've known so many guys here in Vancouver that have hydro-locked in less than a foot of water. and somtimes you really can't tell how deep until you driven in, or wearing polarized glasses. which i sell, and offer discounts to all tsx members ;)
 

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Cyde said:
I can't stand it when people say it's safe to drive with a cai without the bypass, and people that say the bypass is useless and just sucks up hot air... thats not true!

The bypass was designed to draw air in only when the filter has a restriction force (like water) greater than the bypass tuned restrition force level.

I've known so many guys here in Vancouver that have hydro-locked in less than a foot of water. and somtimes you really can't tell how deep until you driven in, or wearing polarized glasses. which i sell, and offer discounts to all tsx members ;)
1. I can't stand it when people just come here firing w/o good reasoning too.

2. Most of the time, things are not working the way they are designed. (esp when it comes to AEM, who did not even do the CAI design correctly in the Accord 6th gen 1st version.) That bypass valve is an universal application. Ok, here is how bypass valve works: (not when the filter has a restriction force). Let say when throttle opens, the air system is sucking in air at 10kPa, when the filter is wet or submerged, it creates more pressure greater than 10kPa. Ideally, the bypass valve will have a design with the valve only opens when the pressure in the intake system exceeds 10kPa. Ok, here are the problems:
a) there is a difference in pressure when engine is idling or full throttle. How would AEM design? Let’s say it varies from 10 to 20kPa. 1st case, make the valve opens at 10kPa. The valve is closed at low rpm, but opens and sucks in hot air when full throttle. 2nd case, make the valve opens at upper limit, which is 20kPa in this case. Valve remains closed but u can still suck in water at low rpm if water + low rpm is less than 20kPa.
b) The pressure in the intake system depends on the suction of the engine (displacement) and diameter of the pipe. It is an universal application and there is no way a universal valve can fit “perfectly”.
I had one bypass valve before and I can tell u it is just a loose-membrane-mechanism. I believe AEM stays on the safe side. That means: Yes, it will prevent hydrolocking very likely. And Yes, it will suck in hot air from the engine very likely too.

3. I am not saying it is impossible to have hydro lock. I am saying it is impossible to suck in water when water is 1 foot deep and filter is 0.5 foot above water level. Even half-submerged, I don’t think a 3”-pipe can do it. (this I don’t know for sure, need some testings). Of course it is different story for other conditions. E.g. the wheel splash water onto the filter… underestimating the water depth… etc. Also, if u compare old civic with tsx, the chance of old civic to get hydro lock is greater, b/c the bottom is more “open”, and there is a big piece of plastic cover under the tsx. (I don’t like that when it comes to oil change and tranny fluid change). Yes, it is still possible, but very unlikely I would say. I have known only one person who hydrolock his car, and he was using a stock intake system lol.

Use Mugen :)
 

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I've never seen a thread, here or on the other site that said "I HYDROLOCKED MY TSX"

Never, not once. I drove through a few large puddles here in SoCal with the recent rains we had. No problems...
 

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joerockt said:
I've never seen a thread, here or on the other site that said "I HYDROLOCKED MY TSX"

Never, not once. I drove through a few large puddles here in SoCal with the recent rains we had. No problems...
how about "MY TSX IS HYDROLOCKED"?

:rofl:

unlikely I would say.. still possible tho... (typical engineering comment, LOL)
 

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it depend.. If you car is motionless and water is still and the filter is .30cm above the water level, yeah i doubt i'll suck it in. But usually that is not the case, your moving and the water is moving, reguarless of the underpanelling dosen't protect you from water, wave action, and the inability for a driver inside the car to judge the water depth acuratley, just the wave action from the car moving through the water, is enough in some case, i've seen 5 friends using their CAI, and get hydrolock, some in less than a foot of water, don't tell them it's not likley to happen, cuz they'd beg to differ.

Hey if you want to do it your way, then do it your way but don't go around telling people it's fine, you can take your own risk, don't put other people at risk of locking their engine.

THe ideal situation is when you know it's the track is dry then take out the bypass, but if you know it's really wet out there with mybe some deep puddles put it on. but that idea is not practical for a daily driver car.
In that case for a daily driver, leave the bypass on, it's not going to kill you or destroy your engine, but if you take it off, you know you run the chance you run the risk. Not worth it ..common sence
 

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Cyde said:
it depend.. If you car is motionless and water is still and the filter is .30cm above the water level, yeah i doubt i'll suck it in. But usually that is not the case, your moving and the water is moving, reguarless of the underpanelling dosen't protect you from water, wave action, and the inability for a driver inside the car to judge the water depth acuratley, just the wave action from the car moving through the water, is enough in some case, i've seen 5 friends using their CAI, and get hydrolock, some in less than a foot of water, don't tell them it's not likley to happen, cuz they'd beg to differ.

Hey if you want to do it your way, then do it your way but don't go around telling people it's fine, you can take your own risk, don't put other people at risk of locking their engine.

THe ideal situation is when you know it's the track is dry then take out the bypass, but if you know it's really wet out there with mybe some deep puddles put it on. but that idea is not practical for a daily driver car.
In that case for a daily driver, leave the bypass on, it's not going to kill you or destroy your engine, but if you take it off, you know you run the chance you run the risk. Not worth it ..common sence
that's the "other" conditions I was talking about.

fine to use or not, it is hard to draw the boundary. Even ur aftermarket radiator cap, I would say it is not fine to use. Also, I never say it is fine to use, I said it is unlikely it would happen. So, don't put the words into my mouth. Even the stock intake system has the risk of hydrolocking, and it did happend. Is it fine to use?

yup, in that case, I would not recommend people to buy the bypass valve, just convert it to short ram when it is wet. No point to use CAI when there is a chance to suck in hot air... more common sense? :laugh:
 

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SAZABI said:
that's the "other" conditions I was talking about.

fine to use or not, it is hard to draw the boundary. Even ur aftermarket radiator cap, I would say it is not fine to use. Also, I never say it is fine to use, I said it is unlikely it would happen. So, don't put the words into my mouth. Even the stock intake system has the risk of hydrolocking, and it did happend. Is it fine to use?

yup, in that case, I would not recommend people to buy the bypass valve, just convert it to short ram when it is wet. No point to use CAI when there is a chance to suck in hot air... more common sense? :laugh:
Sorry didn't mean to put words in your mouth my bad. You mention about the stock intake, the only type of intake that's the safest is either the snorkel type or the overflow protection cap style both styles seen on off road vehicles like the hummer. But interestingly the TSX is built with a mid level snorkel with overflow protection cap, unfortunately there is a design flaw in the TSX intake design, which create a seal failure (more like lack of seal, Honda engineer falling asleep again) which cause pressure loss and water to go in under the cap.

Interesting you brought up the rad cap, The Spoon Rad Cap is so annoying, I'm like on the 3rd one, gone thru all 3, the top keeps coming off and melting on my engine somewhere, I've brought it in for warranty but the new ones have the same problem. but I can't find another 1.35 bar rad cap?
 
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