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Guitar and Amp Junkie
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In the off-topic forum, there's a thread asking people to provide links to their favorite forums and sites. johnej provided a link to www.detnews.com, and I went there to check it out.

Taking a look at the auto section, I saw they had a pretty comprehensive set of auto reviews. So naturally, I dialed up the review for the TSX. I found some of the comments in the review a little odd, particularly this one....

"When you stop to consider what else you can buy for $26,000 to $29,000, the TSX doesn't look like such a good deal."

Um, no, I not only disagree but I think he's dead wrong. I've been looking for a new car for six to eight weeks now, and from what I've found, this comment is totally off base. From the exact same review, they say the following cars are comparable to the TSX:

Audi A4
BMW 325i
Honda Accord
Infiniti G35
Jaguar X-type
Mercedes-Benz C240
Mitsubishi Diamante
Nissan Maxima
Saab 9-3
Toyota Avalon
Volkswagen Passat
Volvo S60

Many of the cars on this list of comps do reach down into the $26K and $29K range, but that's not the whole story. To reach a $26 - $29K price-point, you would have to settle for stripped versions of these cars with little of the features of the TSX. For instance...

Similarly outfitted 325i's and A4's are going to run to $35K, a difference of $6000-$9000 bucks!! Of course, you can come close on a 325i, but that's without any options. I drove one yesterday, and was very impressed. The only options it had were heated seats and a sunroof, and was still $1000 more than the TSX w/navi!!

Yes, an Accord can be had in this price range, similarly outfitted with navi, leather, etc., plus a nice V6. Even though the Accord is a nice car with more room and power than the TSX, it's a different beast. The Accord is more "family sedan", the TSX is more "sport sedan". The Accord is definitely the ugly duckling when compared to the TSX, and while it has more room for little Johnny and Suzy, it's not going to bring a smile to dad's face while rolling around the twisties.

A strippo Volvo can be had at around $27K, but it's vastly underpowered. Step up to the 2.5T and they start at $30,200.

Passat? Please. Can't touch a V6 for under $30K and that V6 has less horsepower than the TSX's I-4, and is hauling around an even bigger car!! Again, outfit the Passat with features like the TSX, and it's way over $30K. I drove one of their V6's during my search and was totally unimpressed.

Yes, you can get an Infiniti G35 for less than $30K. But not with any options, you can't.

Avalon? He's kidding right? It's a slow old man car that starts at $26K, yes, but quickly jumps above $30K if my memory serves me correctly. Heck, the XLS version starts above $30K from what I remember from my last Toyota visit. And I wouldn't exactly call it a "sport" sedan.

Saab 9-3? Nope, gonna pay more than $30K when similarly outfitted.

Maxima for less than $30K? Yes, but without leather, navi, so on and so forth.

I can't comment on the Mitsubishi or the Jag. Not familiar with either one, but I can tell you neither was even on my list of cars to consider. Jaguars that are equipped at over $35K are routinely at the bottom of comparison tests, and a couple made Consumer Reports "Cars to Avoid" list.


The review had a few other off-handed comments while comparing the horsepower of the TSX to other sport sedans like the G35. Yes, the G35 is more powerful -- similarly outfitted it's anywhere between $5000 and $10,000 more!!!

I disagree, Mr. Reviewer. Based on my view from the inside of my wallet, the TSX looks like a surprisingly good deal, esp a TSX w/o navi.
 

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Just another ignorant review, or a reprint from an article. I still think that the TSX is worth the money, and you cant get a similar car for the same price.
 

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I woudn't spend any time worrying about articles from the Lienerts. Jeff (one of the mods at vtec.net) wrote about the time he test drove a Civic Si with Anita Lienert. Ms. Lienert got alarmed every time the engine revved above ~3.5k rpm.
 

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Just a little nutty
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You are right on the mark, Ferg.

The TSX is one of the lowest costing sedan (base price) on that list yet has more standard features than most or all of them. Maybe they just can't look past the fact that it's "only" an Honda Accord in Europe and Asia.

But then again, the article is dated April 17 2003, just few weeks after the debut of the TSX. Now that it's been a while since the release, I am sure they now have a different opinion of the TSX.
:cool:
 

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Absolutely right, Ferg. And that's a nice find, if only because it's such a rare comment, maybe the one and only of its sort.

The usual comment of that sort, which we see all over the place, is the exact opposite -- that one of the main things going for the TSX is how favorably it compares to anything else you could get for the price, plus how much more you'd have to pay for any comparably-equipped comp.
 

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One more thing (since I couldn't edit my earlier post): I think of the Lienerts as the equivalent of Consumer Reports sans the reliability data and the lab tests.
 

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Yup, another dumbass writer that probably did a database search with base price criteria and cut-n-pasted the results into his article. Evidently, he doesn't have good awareness of the products and optioning in this segment. He missed some obvious competitors like the IS300 and WRX and failed to select more comparable models from VW and Volvo (Jetta, S40).
 

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kiteboy said:
.....He missed some obvious competitors like the IS300 and WRX and failed to select more comparable models from VW and Volvo (Jetta, S40).
About the S40, we've been down this road a couple of times before -- I actually agree with the jerk on this one.....


Wait a minute, here's a chance to give some air-time to this dude: :stupid:



.....because I think the S60 is one of the very closest comps to the TSX. It seems really strange to me -- the TSX is a car with so few REAL comps, yet this car that seems to me obviously to be one of the best two or three comps (arguably the best comp) is usually not included, and instead they put in a different car from that same company, the S40, which seems obviously to be much less of a comp than that other one which is right under our noses.

I guess y'all are going mainly on price in picking the S40 as a comp for the TSX. (Also I guess it doesn't help me any that Acura picked the S40 as one of the comps at the ride-and-drives last year, which to me is like Mike Tyson picking Adam Sandler for his next fight.) But if you go by size and weight, which I think are more to the point, you see that the S60 is as close to a twin for the TSX as you can get. The only other car that comes close, IMO, is the Saab 9-3.
 

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Guitar and Amp Junkie
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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Wow, larchmont -- you're quite correct. If you had asked me just ten minutes ago, I would have picked the S40 as a comp for the TSX, not the S60, if only because I perceive the S60 as being a good bit bigger than the TSX. But it's not. Very observant. ;)

Still, the S40 is not that far off. I'm surprised by the listed amount of leg room in the rear of the S40. I've been in that car, and there was no room in the back.

Here are some specs I got off kbb.com (all numbers are in inches):


Spec...................................TSX..................S60..........S40
Wheelbase........................105.1..............106.9........101.0
Overall length....................183.3..............180.2........178.0
Width.................................69.4.................71.0..........67.6
Height................................57.3.................56.2..........56.0
Curb Weight......................3329...............3300..........2767
Head Room: Front..............37.8.................38.7..........38.7
Head Room: Rear...............37.3.................37.9..........37.2
Leg Room: Front.................42.4................42.6...........41.4
Leg Room: Rear..................34.2................33.3...........41.4
Shoulder Room: Front.........55.4................56.2...........54.0
Shoulder Room: Rear..........53.5................55.5...........54.0


Ferg
 

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Ferg said:
Wow, larchmont -- you're quite correct. If you had asked me just ten minutes ago, I would have picked the S40 as a comp for the TSX, not the S60, if only because I perceive the S60 as being a good bit bigger than the TSX. But it's not. Very observant. ;)

Still, the S40 is not that far off. I'm surprised by the listed amount of leg room in the rear of the S40. I've been in that car, and there was no room in the back.....
Thanks Ferg -- I think you're the first person who has come close to agreeing with me on this.

And I think it's even truer than you think. You point out that the S40 isn't that much different, which is what most people think.
Well, consider this:

The TSX's size & weight specs are closer to the BMW 5-series than to the S40.
Far closer. By size and weight, the BMW 5-series is a better match than the S40 for the TSX.

To me, size and weight (simple though they may be) are the main factors determining the nature of a car, assuming a basic similarity in quality. So IMO if you want to regard the S40 as a comp for the TSX, you have to regard the 5-series as a comp too. Which nobody does.


About the rear room, a couple of things: People quite consistently seem to feel that the TSX's rear comfort is greater than what is suggested by the official measurements. IMO of all the car specs that exist, rear dimension measurements are the most suspect; I've never found them very useful. My guess has been that somehow there just isn't a good standardization as to how those measurements are done. Anyway, I've learned not to pay too much attention to them.

Also of course it's possible that when you were in that S40, the front seat was pushed way back. :dunno:
 
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