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Discussion Starter #1
So what to do what to do.
2004 MT 6sp 185k miles

Got the car for a steal knowing the FD/dif was missing a tooth somewhere( my guess). Previous owner said it was like that for over the past 10k miles and he wasnt sure what initiated it but he thinks it creeped up on him (friend so i believe).

So Symptons
-In gear with clutch released only
-Push the clutch or put in neutral and it stops
- timed to the speed of the vehicle. Tap tap tap at 20mph, more of a buzz at 70+
-slightest of vibrations
-annoying since i can hear it when music is off and windows are up

Options
- replace transmission
- rebuild transmission
- wait it out

I like option 3 since it requires no $$ but whats my chances of a roadside Tranny melt down.:puke:
Everything else on the car is flawless
 

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Bardi
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If it goes away when you press the clutch that means the throw out bearing is junk. It is common for clutches with high mileage. Who knows if it was even changed at all :donno:?

If your trans never pops out of gear than you are in luck. Just make sure you have enough oil in there, and dont stress about the trans. If the budget for a new clutch and throw out bearing is there, than go for it!
 

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If it goes away when you press the clutch that means the throw out bearing is junk. It is common for clutches with high mileage. Who knows if it was even changed at all :donno:?

If your trans never pops out of gear than you are in luck. Just make sure you have enough oil in there, and dont stress about the trans. If the budget for a new clutch and throw out bearing is there, than go for it!
That doesnt make sense, when the clutch is engaged (in gear) the throwout bearing is not performing any task. When the clutch pedal is depressed than the load of the pressure plate is pressed on the throwout bearing. Not sure if it was a mis type or a brain fart but what you have is backwards.
 

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Bardi
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That doesnt make sense, when the clutch is engaged (in gear) the throwout bearing is not performing any task. When the clutch pedal is depressed than the load of the pressure plate is pressed on the throwout bearing. Not sure if it was a mis type or a brain fart but what you have is backwards.
No I have it right. Many years and many cars later has led to this incredible knowledge. See when you let off the clutch, the throwout bearing still has slight contact with the pressure plate. The slave cylinder will cause it to slightly touch the pressure plate. If the throw out bearing has huge play between the inner and outer ring, it will rattle unevenly while the pressure from the pressure is light enough to leave room for the bearing to do so. When the clutch is engaged, the load on the bearing is higher, and the play between the rings is small. This causes the noise to go away, but if the bearing is badly worn out, it will cause chattering during pedal pressure.
 

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No I have it right. Many years and many cars later has led to this incredible knowledge. See when you let off the clutch, the throwout bearing still has slight contact with the pressure plate. The slave cylinder will cause it to slightly touch the pressure plate. If the throw out bearing has huge play between the inner and outer ring, it will rattle unevenly while the pressure from the pressure is light enough to leave room for the bearing to do so. When the clutch is engaged, the load on the bearing is higher, and the play between the rings is small. This causes the noise to go away, but if the bearing is badly worn out, it will cause chattering during pedal pressure.
Yes but the bearing itself is not the sole cause of that noise, it is not wobbling on its own. When the clutch pedal is not engaged and there are rattle noises from the clutch its usually warped pressure plate fingers that are the cause. The throwout bearing can actually be in perfect condition when this happens but because the fingers are not level it causes a vibration or rattle when the clutch pedal is disengaged. The second slight pressure is applied the fingers level out and the vibration stops.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I will try to get a video on the way home tonight. I would be quite excited if it was just the bearing :festive:, or anything clutch related as opossed to a gear, it does need to be bleed and maybe slave replaced because it engage/disengages about 10% from the floor. The clutch is who knows how old (over 60k @ least). what makes you guys think it isnt a tooth

When i jack up a wheel and spin it in 6th I dont feel anything though so that must be a good sign. And I put fresh pensoil synchromesh in there until i can aquire some GM sycnro FM super fluid, or if it is just the clutch Ill put oem in it. I hate not knowing what fluids are in the car.
 

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So what to do what to do.
2004 MT 6sp 185k miles

So Symptons
-In gear with clutch released only
-Push the clutch or put in neutral and it stops
- timed to the speed of the vehicle. Tap tap tap at 20mph, more of a buzz at 70+
-slightest of vibrations
-annoying since i can hear it when music is off and windows are up

The video is of no help.

Can you clarify the symptoms?
- Does the car makes this noise when it's not moving?
- Is the noise dependent on the speed of the car or is it dependent on the rpm of the engine?

Add as much info as you can...
 

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Bardi
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Yes but the bearing itself is not the sole cause of that noise, it is not wobbling on its own. When the clutch pedal is not engaged and there are rattle noises from the clutch its usually warped pressure plate fingers that are the cause. The throwout bearing can actually be in perfect condition when this happens but because the fingers are not level it causes a vibration or rattle when the clutch pedal is disengaged. The second slight pressure is applied the fingers level out and the vibration stops.

Uneven fingers on the pressure plate can cause this too I agree. I once changed a clutch without changing the throw out bearing and found the ringing noise was still there. In my case the bearing was bad.
 

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Uneven fingers on the pressure plate can cause this too I agree. I once changed a clutch without changing the throw out bearing and found the ringing noise was still there. In my case the bearing was bad.
Everytime ive ever had a bearing go out it sounds sorta like a piece of steel getting grinded by a table grinder. Maybe we are just describing it differently lol.

Either way IMO it sounds like the pressure plate, but I would replace everything including the TOB regardless.

But yeah unfortunately that video doesnt really help :/
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yeah sorry about the video Ill get another one tonight.

It only happens when moving, clutched or neutral is purfect.

The tick is dependent on the speed of the car, however opening up the throttle increases the volumn. Clutching or neutral and there isnt any noise while moving.

I cant hear the noise in a slow roll in 1st, only second and up.

Everytime ive ever had a bearing go out it sounds sorta like a piece of steel getting grinded by a table grinder. Maybe we are just describing it differently lol.
Doesnt have any grinidng sound, more card in spokes, nail in tire
 

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If the noise only happens when the car is moving, then the noise is not caused by the engine or clutch.

If the noise goes away when the car is moving & in neutral or the clutch is pressed, then the noise is not caused by the wheel bearings, CV joints or differential.

That leaves the transmission.
It's not just one gear in the trans since the noise is happening in multiple transmission gears.

Have you changed the transmission fluid yet? It's easy to do, 2 quarts/Litres of Honda MTF.


Take all my statements with a grain of salt since I haven't seen or heard the car in person...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
If the noise only happens when the car is moving, then the noise is not caused by the engine or clutch.

If the noise goes away when the car is moving & in neutral or the clutch is pressed, then the noise is not caused by the wheel bearings, CV joints or differential.

That leaves the transmission.
It's not just one gear in the trans since the noise is happening in multiple transmission gears.

Have you changed the transmission fluid yet? It's easy to do, 2 quarts/Litres of Honda MTF.


Take all my statements with a grain of salt since I haven't seen or heard the car in person...
My thoughts agree. and yes fluid already replaced. Same before and after. Fluid was clean when it came out, no metalic or "glitter", looked like slightly used motor oil color, still very yellowish. I'm going to be taking to a shop once I get next check for a more official word. :nervous:
 

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You guys are forgetting something though Engine load. In fact when the car is idling there is still a load on the transmission. (If you jack the car up and start it the wheels will spin with it in neutral ;) ).

What happens when you rev it? Does it make the noise? You might need a valve adjustment.

Does the noise oscillate? If so that means its something thats spinning, this noise will increases its repetitiveness as speed increases. Its possible your axles are bad, some perpendicular movement is ok but there should be no rotational movement in your axles. Are you sure your wheels are balanced?

I highly doubt a chipped tooth on a FD would drive ok, that size of a piece of metal would cause real bad problems for the trans.

Heres a few things to test:

What happens if your going 60 and let off the gas?

What happens at 60 if you put it in neutral?

What happens at 60 if you put it in neutral and turn the car off? (Warning you loose power steering with this and alot of brake pressure, do on your own risk and on a straight empty road)

Post the results of those tests, they will give us a more direct answer as to what it "could" be.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Meet my not an ashtray. Pulling out of neighborhood cruisin up to 40mph. Its audible but this makes it sound real loud. Spent all day on youtube and never found this sound.

What happens if your going 60 and let off the gas? - The noise slows down with the car

What happens at 60 if you put it in neutral? - It gets quiet

TSX driveline noise - YouTube
 

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What happens at 60 if you put it in neutral? - It gets quiet.

Well your car sounds like a bucket of bolts in that video!

Prior to that video, I was going to say to keep driving the car until something breaks or the noise gets unbearable.
I don't think that is a good idea now.


Your quoted statement above is critical. I would recommend to get the car in the air & have someone drive it while you are underneath trying to narrow the noise down.
Or take it to a shop or 2 to get some other opinions.

It doesn't really sound like the transmission to me in that video but really tough to tell. You may be tempted to start shopping for a good used transmission but at this point who knows if it's even the trans.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thats def sounds like a tranny. Do you have an exhaust or is that 100% just the sound its making?
No exhaust, have a sri, i was being quiet enough that the stock sounded that loud below 4k rpm. The noise isnt loud and windows or stereo cover it up.

Im selling my jeep so hopefully that would cover clutch tranny or mods if neither. Its a really benign sound overall, very consistent, i swore it was injectors/valves for the longest time till i realized its only in gear.

But yeah hoping to hit up a shop this week.
 

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Its so hard to tell, but to me it sounds trans related. If it were engine related I think it would have let loose already.

It could be anything from bearings, to the input shaft, to syncro mesh, to a bad gear, to a worn diff.

You need to stop driving the car so more damage does not occur and have a trusted shop look it over.

GL let us know what the end result is, im quite curious since that noise is quite odd.

Your quoted statement above is critical. I would recommend to get the car in the air & have someone drive it while you are underneath trying to narrow the noise down.
Or take it to a shop or 2 to get some other opinions.
I agree with this as well but please be careful if you do this. Make sure the car is properly secured on jack stands before going under while the wheels are turning.
 
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