clk 500 or SC430

larchmont said:

Welcome back Bob!

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Did I go someplace? (Besides my occasional trips away from the computer to go outside to fill up the bird feeders and tie up the tomato plants, I mean.)



I suppose if "the sky's the limit" the new Maserati Quattroporte would make an even better "station beater". (I'll stick with a Volvo station wagon already equipped with numerous optional door-dings! While I'm sure Metro North commuters all show respect fine, hand-crafted automobiles, out here on the North Jersey Coast line, they won't!)

larchmont said:

Oddly, I'd say this is the most controversial and arguable of all of Bob's posts, in history.

Which covers quite a bit of ground.

I went to one of the "elites," and at that time (long long ago ) to a great extent it was what Bob says. But I understand it ain't necessarily so any more, based on stats that I've seen (e.g. in those US News & World Report issues). I hope those stats are misleading but I have a feeling they're not.

And I think the poorer graduation rates at the state schools are more due to other factors. Like:

(1) Different types of students to begin with
(2) Lesser cost, so lesser pressure to stick with it
(3) More transferring out of those schools to other schools

BTW.....I would like to believe that regardless of the stats (and actual facts), students who want very much to get the closer attention and smaller classes can do it, just about anywhere, by picking a certain amount of certain kinds of courses and going about things in certain ways. Don't know if it's true, but it certainly was in my day. I had many more small classes than most other people, and even in the huge courses, I had a lot of contact with whomever, when I felt like it. And I liked how the big courses meant that you could miss classes with impunity when you felt like it, which also helped my education a great deal -- no joke.

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I attended a small LAC myself. My college roomate's father was a dept. chairman and dean at a certain large but elite university in Ithaca, NY known for it's football team. It wasn't lack of brains that made him decide not to attend as an undergraduate. He went on to grad school there. So I mean I don't think that the large Ivys like Cornell or U of P necessarily give the kind of individual attention given at the small liberal arts colleges. I did receive one graduate degree from a state U and it was definitely a good experience (and a bargain), but the school was a small one within a large university system. I was pretty much horrified by some of the stories I heard about the undergraduates' experiences.

If you start to "disappear" at one of the "elites" they'll go and find you and sit you down with a counsellor. (For $40k I'd HOPE so!) At State U? I doubt the grad student teaching the 400 student intro class gives a ####, it's just one less exam for him to grade.

As for your reasons for the poor State U graduation rates: #1) the "elites" seem to bend over backwards to encourage diversity in the student body #2) since the "elites" usually guarantee that they'll meet 100% of financial need, the net cost is probably less than a State U. for most families #3) if the State U. experience is so good, why the need to transfer???

To move the argument to a more personal level, I think the choice of 4 years at State U. plus a Porsche vs. 4 years at one of the "elites" would have been a poor choice for my own kid. Your own opinion may be different.

BTW, by "elites" I mean the real elites; the Ivys, the surviving sisters, and the top 10-12 universities and 10-12 LACs on everyone's list. As for the utility of the cost of a private second-tier or third-tier college vs. a State U. I think that's an entirely different calculus. Depending on a variety of factors, not the least of which is the kid.