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Orangeblood
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Discussion Starter #1
In TSX class, A4 is a recommended pick. Ok. Fine. But look at the scores:

1.8T5MT 1.8T5CVT 3.0Q 3.0 Cab
63 59 62 57

Reminder, TSX scored a 62.

BMW 3 Series also recommended, the scores:

325xi 330cp 330sp 330xi
63 57 58 56

Now granted all three are fine cars. But look what they tested!!!!! Look at the scores!!!! Consider the prices!!!! Consider reliability. Those are RECOMMENDED. TSX is not.

Those folks are sounding more like C/D every day. And even C/D has gotten off BMW's jock.
 

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Consumer Guide's scores are cryptic to me. Once they arbitrality assign them to individual attritubes, they summarize them and ignore the total :donno: I don't get it.

They often rate American cars fairly high too. Not that it's impossible that these cars compete, just some of their picks are questionable IMHO.
 

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I think the answer is pretty easy.

I'd guess that they just don't "Recommend" a car until it's been out for more than one model year.

Easy.

Mind you, "easy" doesn't necessarily mean it's RIGHT. :D

It's a reasonable guess. Consumer Reports apparently has this policy. Not that Consumer Guide has anything to do with CR (it doesn't), but I'd bet that this is it.
 

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jcg878 said:
Consumer Guide's scores are cryptic to me.....
They're worse than cryptic -- they're highly NON-INTUITIVE. Unless you're really familiar with their system -- and with the "language" of their scores -- you'll always misinterpret what the scores mean.

The scores always appear to mean something worse than they really do -- especially the total scores, but also the score in each category. If you see an overall score of "65," at first blush you'd probably think that's mediocre, like barely passing. But in fact 65 is an excellent score. And if you see an 8 in one category, you'd probably think it means something like "pretty good," but in fact 8 is GREAT.

However, IMO once you really "get" their system, the CG scores are among the VERY MOST USEFUL of all references and measures. And among the most interesting.

I have relied very heavily on CG, and it has never led me wrong.
 

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Guitar and Amp Junkie
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larchmont said:
I think the answer is pretty easy.

I'd guess that they just don't "Recommend" a car until it's been out for more than one model year.

Easy.

Mind you, "easy" doesn't necessarily mean it's RIGHT. :D

It's a reasonable guess. Consumer Reports apparently has this policy. Not that Consumer Guide has anything to do with CR (it doesn't), but I'd bet that this is it.

I'm with larchie on this one...consumer reports does the same thing. They won't recommend a car until it's been out for a little while and reliability/safety data starts becoming available. Don't worry -- I'm sure the TSX will get a check mark of approval. :thumbsup:
 

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Ferg said:
I'm with larchie on this one...consumer reports does the same thing. They won't recommend a car until it's been out for a little while and reliability/safety data starts becoming available. Don't worry -- I'm sure the TSX will get a check mark of approval. :thumbsup:
On the same note, I find out that C/D had a whole lot more articles on TL than TSX (unfair !!!) Even though TL was released later than TSX last year.
They had comparison testing of TL in the $35000 sedan...etc... and 3, 4 separate articles of the TL.

However, only 2 articles of the TSX and no comparison test ? I want to complain to the C/D people and cry foul !! ;)
 

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Orangeblood
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Discussion Starter #8
On the same note, I find out that C/D had a whole lot more articles on TL than TSX (unfair !!!)
True enough. However, I liked what they had to say about the TSX ever so much better than about the TL. I'll trade 2 articles and 10 Best for all kinds of articles and comparo runners-up.
 

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Ferg said:
I'm with larchie on this one...consumer reports does the same thing. They won't recommend a car until it's been out for a little while and reliability/safety data starts becoming available. Don't worry -- I'm sure the TSX will get a check mark of approval. :thumbsup:
I don't think this is true. I believe they do recommend models from manufacturers with a history of reliabilty (Honda, Toyota). I can't think of a specific one, but I have definitely read "reliability is likely to be very good".
 

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jcg878 said:
I don't think this is true. I believe they do recommend models from manufacturers with a history of reliabilty (Honda, Toyota). I can't think of a specific one, but I have definitely read "reliability is likely to be very good".
That's extremely true. But I think you might be misunderstanding what we're saying.

We're not saying that they don't say anything at all about a new model's likely reliability, just that they don't give the car the "Recommended" label until it has proven itself.

Also: It looks like JCG is talking mainly about Consumer Reports , not Consumer Guide which is the main subject of this thread.
(The reason I'm guessing this: JCG's quote is a CR type of thing -- word for word, I think -- but not particularly the kind of thing that you see in CG.)
 

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I am referring to CR - they will recommend products before they are sure they are reliable. I'll have to find an example... the Mazda3 perhaps? Brand new model, and it's recommended.
 

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jcg878 said:
I am referring to CR - they will recommend products before they are sure they are reliable. I'll have to find an example... the Mazda3 perhaps? Brand new model, and it's recommended.
I don't think it is, JCG, and I don't think you'd find another example either.

The closest I've ever seen to an example of what you're saying is that they "Recommend" the new TL.
IMO they're violating the spirit of their guideline, because the TL is (I would say) essentially a totally new model.

But it doesn't violate THE LETTER of their guideline, because "TL" is a pre-existing model.

Pretty silly, eh? But it is indeed in line with the letter of this guideline.


P.S. If they really do give the Mazda 3 the "Recommended" label, it would be because they're giving it "credit" for being a continuation of the Protege.
But, as per what I said above, if they're "Recommending" the 3, it's news to me.
 

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The Voice of Reason
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larchmont said:
I don't think it is, JCG, and I don't think you'd find another example either.

The closest I've ever seen to an example of what you're saying is that they "Recommend" the new TL.
IMO they're violating the spirit of their guideline, because the TL is (I would say) essentially a totally new model.

But it doesn't violate THE LETTER of their guideline, because "TL" is a pre-existing model.

Pretty silly, eh? But it is indeed in line with the letter of this guideline.
I know for A FACT that Consumer Reports "Recommended" the Volvo V70 in it's first model year, 1998.

And I know for A FACT that CR had the 1998 Volvo V70 on it's "Used Cars to Avoid" list a couple of years later.

I think CR justified the recommendation because the V70 was derived from the 1993-1997 Volvo 850, and not all that much was changed; just some sheetmetal and electrical parts, but it was enough. Once all the electrical parts manufactured in former Soviet Socialist states were recalled or replaced under warranty, it hasn't been such a bad car.

My wife (who initially hated, and I mean HATED the car) has finally decided that she likes the seats and that I've gotten the manual transmission nicely broken-in....after just 140,000 miles! :rolleyes:
 

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larchmont said:
I don't think it is, JCG, and I don't think you'd find another example either.
Ah ha, but it is! Got the magazine right here - recommended, and their new favorite small car.

P.S. If they really do give the Mazda 3 the "Recommended" label, it would be because they're giving it "credit" for being a continuation of the Protege.
But, as per what I said above, if they're "Recommending" the 3, it's news to me.
Maybe, but that's a pretty weak explanation IMO. New platform, new model... don't think much is shared with the Protege. I remember when the new Explorer was reviewed, they labelled it as "promising" - owing (IMO again) to it's weak reliability history, but high scores. I don't think it's recommended now.

edit: it is

<goes to look for another example besides the TL>
 

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My bad!

Larchmont, who's going to check those issues (including 1998) when he gets a chance to see if there's some way to wiggle out of this one. :D

jcg878 said:
.....Maybe, but that's a pretty weak explanation IMO. New platform, new model... don't think much is shared with the Protege.....
Yes -- but all the same is true about the new TL, yet they give it "credit" for being a continuation of the old TL.
I think it probably IS correct to say that they don't recommend new models EXCEPT when they give it "credit" for being a continuation (rightly or wrongly).

Anyway, JCG.....can you gimme a head start? Which issue was it that "Recommended" the Mazda 3?
 

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jcg878 said:
Aug 2004. They recommend the xB also.
Thanks, JCG -- I actually had the issue lying around, but hadn't looked at it yet!

That's quite a review of the Mazda3. They have separate rankings for automatics and manuals among the "Small Cars" -- and the Mazda is #1 in both.

And the rankings include basically everything, not just the few cars they review in this issue. That means they're putting the Mazda ahead of the Civic (#3), the Corolla (#6), and all the other "Small Cars." (BTW #2 was the Ford Focus.)

And indeed it appears they gave the Mazda3 "credit" for the Protege's favorable history, although it's not totally clear that this is why the car was considered eligible for the "Recommended" nod.

Great get, JCG!
 

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C&D? Yeah, their editors are doing a good job, but I think politics are now into the magazine. First, they want to write something that most people will agree with so the circulation will be up! and secondly, they want to keep in good relationship with most car companies (feed them some candies once in a while) so that they can get enough cars in comparison test.
 

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Guitar and Amp Junkie
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jcg878 said:
Aug 2004. They recommend the xB also.
xB is not a new car. It's been sold in Japan under another name for quite some time -- just like the TSX. So, I don't know what's going on. h1e1l1p
 
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