O. W. Kone said:What's with this non-ventilated thin rear disks on the TSX?
The car deserves beefier brakes both front and back - at least 1 inch more in diameter disk ventilated all around. Honda cheaped out on this important part.
Ouch! I hope not.hip said:....you are right that they are not the best that can be had. I read a review somewhere that after 4 hard panic stops they turned to mush.
As I understand it, BTW, that's why the TL 6MT has Brembos only on the front.....Keep in mind on FWD, braking is always biased toward the front.....
All wheeled vehicles (cars, motorcycles, bikes) are front-biased during braking because of weight transfer. Of course, FWD cars more so because they tend to have more static weight at the front anyways.hip said:Keep in mind on FWD, braking is always biased toward the front and typically you will go through about 3-4 front pads for every rear set.
It has for years ... they're called "BMWs".hip said:I'm sure the aftermarket has numerous upgrades by now?
Thanks for the Welcome.larchmont said:Welcome, OWK -- and I don't know from ventilated or non-ventilated, thin or thick.
But I've wished the brakes were better.
BTW how long have you had your TSX and how many miles do you have?
I've posted that the braking on my car seemed better after a while than at first. It made me wonder if brakes get "broken in" over time. I still don't know the answer to that, but I'd be curious if your car is just starting out. And if so, if you'll be finding the braking to be better after some more mileage.
Yes indeed, that's what I thought -- the low mileage, as well as that you were making MOSTLY a physical observation. But I was also assuming that you wouldn't have been moved to say it unless you were also disappointed in the braking performance -- which (consensus seems to be) will get better as you go along.O. W. Kone said:Thanks for the Welcome.
220 miles this morning a mix of city and burb driving. I am sure the brakes are breaking-in. The observation was just an physical observation not a comment on the braking ability.
Well, IMO you're pretty polite even when you're being impolite.....Also, Honda cheaped out on the high beams - they should have put in the super-whites (sylvania sliver star) for a better match with the HID headlights. The halogen highs look more distinctly yellow against the HIDs. IMO awkward to say it politely .
Well, there are many sides to every story and as we all know, car manufacturers will do whatever it takes to sell a car... so long as they can make a profit.O. W. Kone said:Thanks for the Welcome.
I think my Integra had ventilated disks from the factory both front and back.
Hip, Comptech has drilled rotors front and back for TSX. But that's beside the point - Honda should have put in beefier brakes. They simply cheaded out there.
Also, Honda cheaped out on the high beams - they should have put in the super-whites (sylvania sliver star) for a better match with the HID headlights. The halogen highs look more distinctly yellow against the HIDs. IMO awkward to say it politely .
Great reply -- thanks, OWK! Even I can understand that.O. W. Kone said:Thin disk will wear out faster. Larger disk and pads improves braking because there is more surface area for the braking action. Ventilated disks like the ones in the front allow for better cooling of the disks thus reduced chance of disk warp in the long run. Less heat means less gas generated from the heating of the brake pads - the gas forms a very thin layer on the disk surface that prevents better contact of the pads with the disks during hard braking. Less heat may also extend brake pad life. Cross drilled and ventilated disks are used for improved braking for these reasons.....
Great post by Hip too. Actually a lot of people would have bought the Acura even if they didn't do a great job. I even might have. :tardsmashhip said:.....As it has already been said, for the way most Honda/Acura drivers drive, the current setup is probably sufficient. I suppose it’s all relevant and what you compare it against. Keep in mind that despite the fact that Honda sells this vehicle as an Acura or premium model, we all realize it is based on an Accord platform, a much improved and great platform, but still an Accord.....
Yes, Honda made some real improvements on the TSX over the Euro Accord, but most was cosmetic. On the plus side, they did an excellent job, otherwise none of us would have bought one.
.....Honda could add rear vented brakes, super-white high beams and much more, but would you have purchased the TSX if they charged another $3K? Maybe yes, maybe not, just like everything in life, it’s a compromise.
I know when I was shopping, my closest 2nd choice car was the G35. it had the higher output V6, RWD, LED tail lamps, rear reclining seats and better performance. But, it also had what I felt was a cheaper looking interior, and was priced higher by about $3K-$5K depending on model and accessories.
Being biased toward Honda and comparing the two, I couldn't justify the extra dollars, but some people do and are happy.....
Hip, I work for a Japanese company I have learnt how fastidious they can be about the subtlties. A large American company IS contract manufacturing a product for us - what they feel is good quality is unacceptable by my Japanese counterparts just because of minor appearnace flaws that has no bearing at all on product performance or quality. Even I would consider that product to be perfectly good for the US and European markets. That is exactly why the TSX is so well made Honda thought about the minor details. I detailed the inside of the car with leather treatment the week I got it - the only fault I detected was a half inch piece of thead caught in the seams of the rear middle handrest. That is why I find is so out of character for Honda not to use a superwhite high beams.hip said:Most here feel Honda has done well and leave it at that. Some may decide to make subtle improvements or mods and others may turn their TSXs into racers. I suppose that is the beauty of the car, it can be whatever you want it to be?
As for the headlights, I agree from an aesthetic point of view it may not "look" great having different lighting in the high beams. Somehow, I don't think that was Honda's priority when they developed it?
Look at it this way, Honda could add rear vented brakes, super-white high beams and much more, but would you have purchased the TSX if they charged another $3K? Maybe yes, maybe not, just like everything in life, it’s a compromise.
You make your choice and drive your decision, unless you are so unhappy that you decide to sell and move on?
Yes -- I wondered exactly that about the Integra thing.O. W. Kone said:.....As for the brakes if Honda could put in ventilated disks disks all around in their Integra LS with only 140HP in 1995 - it is not unreasonable to expect higher grade brakes in their new car.
Neither changes would have cost Honda $3K....
Don't get me wrong, I agree with most of what you said, but I do disagree with your superwhite high beam example. Here's why, I'm usually one of the first to "comment" on the differences between the newer Hondas and previous generations. I am constantly comparing my wife's '93 Accord with the TSX and can clearly see many areas of cost cutting. Compared to older Hondas, it's very obvious where they saved dollars.O. W. Kone said:I detailed the inside of the car with leather treatment the week I got it - the only fault I detected was a half inch piece of thead caught in the seams of the rear middle handrest. That is why I find is so out of character for Honda not to use a superwhite high beams.
As for the brakes if Honda could put in ventilated disks disks all around in their Integra LS with only 140HP in 1995 - it is not unreasonable to expect higher grade brakes in their new car.
Neither changes would have cost Honda $3K.
As for your last comment about choice - all I can say Honda and other makers do listen to the customers if we comment on the perceived shortcomings they will respond in their future years or models. If they hear no complaints they have no way of knowing what the customers would want. I have already pointed out these shortcomings to Honda.
Great analysis in that post up there, Hip.hip said:.....The levers down next to seat used to contain 2 seperate levers, one for gas, one for the trunk opener, now one lever does both. Is this being cheaper, no its just more cost effective engineering and manufacturing.....
That's exactly correct Larch, when I or anyone design a product there are always goals to achieve. In the case of cars or Hondas, they have many specific requirements. Generally they are broken down into two areas; refinement and innovation.larchmont said:Great analysis in that post up there, Hip.
I thought that these days, in general, when you can make something more compact or less compact, or when you can make two different things integrated or you can make them separate, I thought that smaller tends to be more expensive than bigger (think watches and clocks, or compact camcorders and humongous ones), and integrated tends to be more expensive than separate.
Without much thinking about it, I always regarded this combination gasoline cover opener/trunk opener as an advance, not an economy.