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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, have recently been doing a P&P job on my RBC I/M to accommodate the ZDX big bore DBW T/B. You have to buy an adapter plate to make this work, due to the fact that the ZDX has a different bolt down set-up.. I bought mine from P2R (#P384) there are supposedly others out there, but I don't know by whom, and didn't research any further...
Anyway, the ZDX T/B has an 80mm inlet dia, and a 70mm outlet. I decided to open my RBC inlet up to the required 70mm. I thought about how i could go abouts doing this.. Found some nice tools at my local hardware store. For the opening of the I/M inlet I used grinding wheels, that fit on a rubber base, made for use on a drill machine. (Shaft dia. 6mm) The wheels come in various grits, so I grabbed a handful of each and went to work. Still waiting (almost 3 weeks now) for the adapter plate to arrive so i can do the final grind/sizing, but this is what it looks like at the moment:
Grinding wheels from coarse to fine:
http://imageshack.us/a/img401/9199/3waf.jpg

Wheel attached to the rubber base:
http://imageshack.us/a/img842/5641/7y2v.jpg

Inlet opened up, awaiting final touches:
http://imageshack.us/a/img842/7240/fiq0.jpg

I then attached my P2R (no this is not a cheap ad for the company, though I do much like their products!!) Thermal I/M gasket with 2 pcs 8mm bolts, 1 per side, and a handful of 6mm bolts to keep it firmly in place while porting/polishing. I then went ahead and ground the runners open to the size of the gaskets, +/- say 0,5mm. Here i used an array of cutting/grinding tools. For the rough cut, i used my dremel, with cutting tools from "Proxxon" (They are WAY better than the cutting tools dremel has to offer). make sure, if you go this route, to buy tools with large open cutters. Cutters that are cross-hatched are too narrow and tend to gunk up quickly, the spaces fill with aluminum fast as hell!!
I/M runners opened/ground out to the size of the Thermal gasket:
http://imageshack.us/a/img89/3205/r6kt.jpg

Close-up:
http://imageshack.us/a/img534/5189/1l96.jpg

Dremel/Proxxon tools.. (You will require a smaller dia. chuck for the proxxon tools, being their shaft is only 2.3mm compared to dremels being 3.0mm:
http://imageshack.us/a/img833/8503/z9em.jpg

Gunked up cross-hatched tool:
http://imageshack.us/a/img837/2691/lud3.jpg

For those hard to reach places, and furthe down the runners/into the plenum of the I/M i made these tools: Took a 1m piece of 3mm copper round material,, which i could cut into various lengths, depending on how far i wanted to reach. i then applied some double sided tape to the end and stuck some sanding paper to that. You can make different shapes, using the tape. For the most part, i used cylindrical shapes, but to make a tapered tool is quite easy too: Just wrap some tape around your 'dowel', then a few mm back, add a narrower piece, and do this a few times till you have a christmas tree form. Then wrap your sanding paper to that in a spiraling motion. Tape the loose end down from the inside (Loose end) and presto: For the cylindrical ones i just left the loose end dangling... makes a bit more noise, but the rotational force keeps it from unwinding.. Too, when the sand paper is finished, you just tear a strip away and can get right back to work without having to reapply the paper.. (Beware that it is 'wound' in the same direction as rotation!!!)
http://imageshack.us/a/img812/5999/ty8n.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img585/7941/05ae.jpg

I imagine, if you so wanted you could also apply some scotch brite to the tool for a final finishing.. still doing some tinkering around, thinking of maybe using some valve seat gringing paste to do the final polishing... 2000 grit wet sand paper would be worn out within seconds using the dremel..
Oh, one more thing: I also have the flex shaft tool for the dremel.. it is/was the ultimate helper!! the grip is much narrower, easier to get in to those tight places..

I have done pretty much the same thing on my head, opening the channels to the valves, so they 'fit' the gasket.. also bolted into place, to keep it from moving...

Mounty
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
These are testing grounds, to see if it really does do anything.. Just going by what people "think/imagine' 'should be enough' just doesn't seem right... apparently no-one has tested this combo, so let me be a first... if it works, good, if not, back to the 06 tsx t/b i had installed... no harm done... and if, only to myself, and i will pass on the info, with a yay or nay... go or no-go...
Acc-Man
 

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These are testing grounds, to see if it really does do anything.. Just going by what people "think/imagine' 'should be enough' just doesn't seem right... apparently no-one has tested this combo, so let me be a first... if it works, good, if not, back to the 06 tsx t/b i had installed... no harm done... and if, only to myself, and i will pass on the info, with a yay or nay... go or no-go...
Acc-Man
true is that RBC or even RRC intake manifold is holding all power, but not TB. TSX 06+ TB is more then enough for simple N/A build. Anyway it would be nice to see your results, still using 179-B cams ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Just so: I figure, and am more than likely wrong here, ppl are putting large 3.5" (what's that, around 89mm?) tubing on/to their 64mm t/b's, and getting good results, with more volume of air being allowed to be sucked in by the engine. I am sticking with 80 cm tubing, same dia as the t/b intake, which in itself should also allow a greater volume of air to be pulled through, the restriction is less due to the fact that the t/b outlet is 70mm. I work as a commercial aircraft (Jet: GE, Rolls Royce, CFMI, Pratt and Whitney) engine mechanic, so i've learnt a few things about air flow: constriction means 1) slower flow, but with 2) higher outlet pressure. So from how i see it, there is no need for a higher outlet pressure, flow is what we want...
@ Vaikis: Yepp still using and loving the kelford 179-b's... guess vit has been telling you they are garbage, huh?? What are you using?? how about showing us your ride, maybe a dyno printout too, instead of always just cutting others equipment down, and not being ready/willing/able to back any of your 'theories"?? I realised on the hondata forum, that you are real good at taking other peoples info, and acting as if you yourself have/had come up with this info... Hell, on k20a.org you were selling a cnc ported/polished, ultimate parts head, instead of installing it yourself, on your car... starting to think you are driving a donkey drawn carriage, with a red honda emblem stuck on it just for good looks.. fuss up, man, or cut the shit..
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Mounty/Acc-Man
 

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speaking on k20. have you ever though of going this route k24block/k20head? somebodys offering me rxs-s whole engine for 400 debating if i should jump on it take the head and sell the k20 block, but i get mix review some say it flows the same some say it flows way better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
thought about it, but I have 2 tsx heads already... one tbat had been ported and used on a k20 racing civic fn2 and my old one which I am reworking at the moment... 400 is a grab! what all are they offering you with this head? what kinda power are you getting with your parts? quite the Impressive list o goodies there!! do you find the zdx t/b brought you any gains?
 

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Just so: I figure, and am more than likely wrong here, ppl are putting large 3.5" (what's that, around 89mm?) tubing on/to their 64mm t/b's, and getting good results, with more volume of air being allowed to be sucked in by the engine. I am sticking with 80 cm tubing, same dia as the t/b intake, which in itself should also allow a greater volume of air to be pulled through, the restriction is less due to the fact that the t/b outlet is 70mm. I work as a commercial aircraft (Jet: GE, Rolls Royce, CFMI, Pratt and Whitney) engine mechanic, so i've learnt a few things about air flow: constriction means 1) slower flow, but with 2) higher outlet pressure. So from how i see it, there is no need for a higher outlet pressure, flow is what we want...
@ Vaikis: Yepp still using and loving the kelford 179-b's... guess vit has been telling you they are garbage, huh?? What are you using?? how about showing us your ride, maybe a dyno printout too, instead of always just cutting others equipment down, and not being ready/willing/able to back any of your 'theories"?? I realised on the hondata forum, that you are real good at taking other peoples info, and acting as if you yourself have/had come up with this info... Hell, on k20a.org you were selling a cnc ported/polished, ultimate parts head, instead of installing it yourself, on your car... starting to think you are driving a donkey drawn carriage, with a red honda emblem stuck on it just for good looks.. fuss up, man, or cut the shit..
Out
Mounty/Acc-Man
dude I have build and tuned K series engines for ~5 years and it's just not empty "theories". And yes yours 179-B doesn't make great power it's true. Yes keldford's are garbage because a lof of cams fail, there is no QC in place !!! Two guys in russia allready had problems with 179-b cams.
If your CL9 auto can run in 2nd gear 50-130km/h in 9s please show me the FlahsPro log ! Last guy which I tuned with TSX 06+ intake cam can do such time with his CL9 Auto easy and it's just simple bolt ons no any black magic.
CNC head - LOL I even didn't had such, if OEM FN2 head is done by CNC what I can say else..... I have a lot of parts and can get even more. For example today in my garage is 2 x K24a3 engines and 2x K20z4heads. Doing builds for my good friends which use car in the track.
So go and play with your TB.
 

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speaking on k20. have you ever though of going this route k24block/k20head? somebodys offering me rxs-s whole engine for 400 debating if i should jump on it take the head and sell the k20 block, but i get mix review some say it flows the same some say it flows way better.
if you can get for such price, just grab this deal. K20 head flows better on the top, speak with team4piston if you don't trust me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well then, you should too know, through experience, that not everything works out to the optimum from the beginning.. hell, even the oem engines have a +/- margin of 10%.. that would/could mean 19 almost 20 hp difference from new...
You already graphed an e-dyno for/from me, and it was different from what the roll-dyno too told me.. what do i believe? And then on top of that, each roll-dyno varies aswell, so who is right??
I had dynoed my (old) dc sports header, which in your eyes is 'garbage' too, and then i bought an asp header, dynoed that (without any retuning) and it was not any better. the only real difference is the quality of the workmanship... from the power 'gains', the dc was NOT any worse..
I am not trying to start any kind of feud here, by no means!! But wouldn't it be ok, with you, to let ppl try shit out, without having to comment on it, without having proof to back this up?? not just 'hear-say'?? If you know (of) people in Russia, that have had bad experience with the kelfords, could/may it not be that the whole package wasn't setup right, maybe a bad mixture of parts??
Like i said, i am just trying this ZDX t/b out, for 'the fun of it'... ii have time and patience, not too overly worried if it dosen't end the way i am thinking... this is not going to break me, nor do i hope to squeeze the last few drops of power out of my car.. it's a dd, and it can't be 'highly tuned' to the point of breaking. bad enough that my engine build is taking longer than anticipated, but i am learning things along the way, more than i ever expected to know... I have and am, atm, doing the work myself, as far as my knowledge/tools will let me.. still have alot to learn, and doubt i will ever be able to say "I'm a tuner".. i understand nothing of the mapping/electronic tuning... and to say the truth, am not really interested in that.. there are others out there that have the knowledge, just need to find the right person who can help me out there, instead of having to travel back an forth to/from switzerland each time i want to try something new...
Alright?? no hard feeling man, we are in the same boat, same 'hobby' (or in your case 'profession??... do you do this as a fulltime job??)
Mounty/Acc-man
 

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ASP header is better power wise if comparing to DC, each component needs proper tune !!!! if you do the same put ZDX TB and won't re-tune what the point waisting this time ? So if you want I can help you with FlashPro tune - fine tuning after ZDX TB swap for free.
time in which you can do from 50 to 130 km/h tells a lot and there is no need to have a dyno if you want to compare different setups. For 179-B cams you need to up CR more as with 10.5:1 it doesn't want to work properly assuming you a have good 179-B cams not with cenerlines being off....
All engine assembly ant tune it's just my hobby. Right hands and tools can do a lot if you know how to do things properly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Actually, am rebuilding my engine now, due to a fatal error... wrong octane, (95 instead of 98... talk about being pissed at myself..!!) piston(s) broke/melted... had gone up to 12.5:1 with wiseco Pistons 87,5mm and eagle rods (new rsx oil pump aswell) knock sensor went on, and then kaboom... i'll post pictures later tonight.. am off to work right now...
Sbaziewo (thanks) and talk more later, da?
Mounty/Acc-Man/Markus

Ok, did have a second more.. uploaded the pics quickly... don't give me too much shit for my f-up, alright??
http://imageshack.us/a/img407/1695/rios.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img534/1420/mo1s.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img849/1333/tlbx.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img266/1138/kzz1.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img853/7346/egzl.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img13/2717/1j23.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img41/2417/tb8y.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img12/3624/8stu.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img109/1279/pgy0.jpg

the valves are still good, just have to remove the block and rehone, rebuild it.. damn!!!
and yes i was (am) planning on retuning after the zdx t/b install.... will be a while though...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

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I'm selling the 12:5.1 cr cp pistons along with the stock rods and crank. Now that I got the k20 head I'm starting all over . Looking to get into the 14;5 compression so new pistons new rods I'm gonna sleeve bore n polish the head and bore the bottom to 2.7l . Bigger crank , I'm sticking to all motor with a bottle of nos in the trunk . The bracket for the bottle is 150$ . And on the save side I bought a k24 block just the block nothing in it for 150$ so if anything goes wrong I can just swap it
 

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Thanks for sharing your project..

The TODA is very similar to the Spoon Venturi TB's..

Interested to see what the outcome is for you
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
@ 978snb: holy bejesus!!! you really going that high with your c/r?? is this your daily drive?? you will need like race fuel for such a c/r no?? what does the stuff go for/what's it cost?? and i thought my hobby (gone wild/wife already calls her 'boom-chitty-bang-bang') was eating a rather large hole (black hole) in my pockets...
Me
 

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i was planning on doing 50/50 93 octane mixed with 100. the engine work should cost me 2500 with the parts included
 
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