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Strange...I see about a billion Accords and a few Subaru's here and there (but then I tend to be only looking at college parking lots :p)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You probably don't drive past Subaru of America every morning. I've had the "pleasure" of seeing about 4 Tribecas asdfg
 

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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:



Larchmont, who enjoyed the thread title.
(Nice little job, Jason!) :nod:
 

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Go out west...specifically the Pacific Northwest. Subaru's are all over the place out there!
 

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Yep, we got 'em all over here too. Ever drive one? It's like driving a wooden wagon compared to the TSX. One word comes to mind CHEAP! The TSX is quiet and rides like butter. The entire car inside and out fits together well with high quality plastics and materials. The Subaru's have cardboard door panels, cheap plastics and are noisy.
They may be faster, but the TSX is MUCH more refined.
 
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I own a 2002 non-Turbo Legacy GT and a 2005 TSX. I test drove the Legacy GT and still have some regret because it is such an awesome ride. The problem with the article is that they are trying to compare it to a BMW and that's not fair. The BMW is more money and German. For that matter the TSX has even less chance of passing the BMW test because it is front drive and even slower. I agree that the TSX suspension is better balanced than the Legacy GT but it is such a kick-in-the-pants to drive that you don't care. The Acura TL suspension I found worse than the Legacy GT because it's too much power for front drive and the valving is just not right on the TL. I agonized over the Legacy GT Turbo and the TSX but eventually I decided on the TSX because is was a little less money, higher mileage and my wife loved the Legacy GT so much that she has decided that when our 2002 Legacy GT gets old, we are trading it in the the Turbo model. It's not a perfect car but neither is the TSX and everyone should drive the new Legacy GT with Manual before considering any other car.....it is impressive to drive. All wheel drive is The Bomb when you have 250hp or more.

And by the way, Subaru warranties brake and clutch linings for 3/36,000 unlike chicken$h1t Acura non-warranty for "wear" items.

IB
 
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radiodr said:
Yep, we got 'em all over here too. Ever drive one? It's like driving a wooden wagon compared to the TSX. One word comes to mind CHEAP! The TSX is quiet and rides like butter. The entire car inside and out fits together well with high quality plastics and materials. The Subaru's have cardboard door panels, cheap plastics and are noisy.
They may be faster, but the TSX is MUCH more refined.
I respectfully disagree. I own both and my brand new 2005 TSX has more rattles and clutch weirdness than my Subaru EVER did. I won't even go into the thin paint, lack of door ding protection, lack of memory seats, and plastic bumpers that look like they were painted in Tijuana with the wrong color paint after a month.

For that matter, Consumer Reports has just released their quality survery results and they state that Subaru is the most reliable brand. I like my TSX and the interior IS a little bit nicer than the Subaru but the Subaru is not a Yugo either. I find the Subaru to be better quality than Nissan, close to American built Hondas and Toyotas. The all-Japanese stuff like the TSX is a little better, but cars like the Forester are all Japanese too.

And if we were all looking for a car to ride like butter, then we should all be buying a big Lexus car. While the TSX is butter, the Legacy GT is Hot Tabasco Sauce.
 

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When you consider all of the facts in the article, it's actually pretty complimentary. I applaud subaru for their Legacy GT. I drive a G35 (not the x), but living here in Seattle makes me consider an AWD down the road. I'm glad to see more and more upscale AWD sedans. Subaru isn't a fly by night company. What they do, they generally do pretty well. Give them a couple models to perfect the new Legacy GT and I bet they'll be a real sleeper in the AWD sedan category.
 

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BobbyG123 said:
When you consider all of the facts in the article, it's actually pretty complimentary. I applaud subaru for their Legacy GT. I drive a G35 (not the x), but living here in Seattle makes me consider an AWD down the road. I'm glad to see more and more upscale AWD sedans. Subaru isn't a fly by night company. What they do, they generally do pretty well. Give them a couple models to perfect the new Legacy GT and I bet they'll be a real sleeper in the AWD sedan category.
I don't think it was very complimentary compared to their earlier reviews of it at all. :wizard:

It doesn't snow in Seattle... ever, correct? :confused:
 

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Well, it does, but rarely, and if it does it's melted the same day. But, that's not really the point of AWD. If you have a lot of horsepower, you have lots of "hook-up" with an AWD vehicle. Ever stomp your TSX off the line and get the tires squealing? (especially with the VSC turned off)? That's horsepower loss. If there were 4 wheels driving instead of two, you wouldn't have that squealing, you'd have the car rocketing ahead. Plus, even in wet weather it's better to have an AWD vehicle if you want to horse around with the car.
The problems I have with an AWD vehicle and why I'd never own one is it's a lot of stuff moving around for no reason if you don't need it. Gas milage suffers and there is more wear going on. If you could use it like my other vehicle, a 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4, and slip the thing in 4wd when needed by pushing a button, then to me it would make more sense. Use it when you need it, conserve when you don't.
But in the end it's just a Subaru and I don't think I'd ever be able to bring myself to buy one of those things. If it's speed you want, there are better performing cars out there for the money IMO and they dont come with a granola dispenser on the dash! :)
 

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I know of the benefits of AWD - I was just being a jerk :eek: Writing lectures at 11pm on Sunday will do that to you aehe10
 
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radiodr said:
Well, it does, but rarely, and if it does it's melted the same day. But, that's not really the point of AWD. If you have a lot of horsepower, you have lots of "hook-up" with an AWD vehicle. Ever stomp your TSX off the line and get the tires squealing? (especially with the VSC turned off)? That's horsepower loss. If there were 4 wheels driving instead of two, you wouldn't have that squealing, you'd have the car rocketing ahead. Plus, even in wet weather it's better to have an AWD vehicle if you want to horse around with the car.
The problems I have with an AWD vehicle and why I'd never own one is it's a lot of stuff moving around for no reason if you don't need it. Gas milage suffers and there is more wear going on. If you could use it like my other vehicle, a 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4, and slip the thing in 4wd when needed by pushing a button, then to me it would make more sense. Use it when you need it, conserve when you don't.
But in the end it's just a Subaru and I don't think I'd ever be able to bring myself to buy one of those things. If it's speed you want, there are better performing cars out there for the money IMO and they dont come with a granola dispenser on the dash! :)
If you're comparing a Dodge 4x4 to the Subaru system, I could see why you are concerned about reliability but the Subaru AWD system is bulletproof. My brother bought a Chrysler Jeep 4x4 and it wouldn't go into 4wd right off the showroom floor. We later found out that this was common in many Jeep Cherokees that the transfer case and driveshaft were no ligned up correctly from the factory and many don't work. Reliability is excellent on the 4wd system. With that said, the gas mileage suffers a bit but when you mash the throttle and you hear no tire squeal, you just get launched. That's worth a few more pennies in gas. When I first got my Legacy GT, I would love finding some really crazy Dodge Viper or Mustang GT at a light on a rainy day and just mashing the throttle and watch them spin their wheels in my rear view mirror. That was fun. Of course I'm a little older now and more dignified but I confess prowling for young kids in sports cars when it rained.
 

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My wife's brother-in-law got a new Legacy GT end of last year. I got a chance to drive it. My biggest beef is that the gear shift isn't very smooth.
 
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sjlee said:
My wife's brother-in-law got a new Legacy GT end of last year. I got a chance to drive it. My biggest beef is that the gear shift isn't very smooth.
There is an STI Shift Kit option for that takes care of this. I agree that the shifter on the TSX is much better, but then again, the TSX shifter has consistently been rated on of the best around. I drove the GT with the STI short shift kit and it was fine. I think it was a $300 retail option. It also comes stock with a Momo air bag sterring wheel and an option for a Momo shift know. Pretty cool. Mine is the 2002 unit and the 2005 unit was better anyway than the one for my year.

IB
 

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That's just it. If you want to compare the manual transmission to an Acura, the Acura wins. If you want to compre the Subaru to a BMW in terms of performance and refinement, the BMW wins. If you want to compare the Subaru to the G35x in terms of acceleration, the G35x wins.

Subaru's a fantastic in wet, slushy weather like we get here in Seattle. I predict Subaru tightens up their steering and refines the GT even further in the coming years. If it continues to be priced $5-$10K lower than Audi, BMW, or Infiniti AWD's, then they will have a solid place in the cold weather market.
 

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nachob said:
There is an STI Shift Kit option for that takes care of this. I agree that the shifter on the TSX is much better, but then again, the TSX shifter has consistently been rated on of the best around. I drove the GT with the STI short shift kit and it was fine. I think it was a $300 retail option. It also comes stock with a Momo air bag sterring wheel and an option for a Momo shift know. Pretty cool. Mine is the 2002 unit and the 2005 unit was better anyway than the one for my year.

IB
The one I drove had the STI option (I believe). It still didn't feel that smooth, but then again it was brand new (not broken in). Of course, like you said, I'm comparing it to an Acura, which is always top rated.
 

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BobbyG123 said:
That's just it. If you want to compare the manual transmission to an Acura, the Acura wins. If you want to compre the Subaru to a BMW in terms of performance and refinement, the BMW wins. If you want to compare the Subaru to the G35x in terms of acceleration, the G35x wins.

Subaru's a fantastic in wet, slushy weather like we get here in Seattle. I predict Subaru tightens up their steering and refines the GT even further in the coming years. If it continues to be priced $5-$10K lower than Audi, BMW, or Infiniti AWD's, then they will have a solid place in the cold weather market.
Good point. From my perspective, I'm comparing cars under $30k... everything thing from performance to features and reliability.

The Subaru is a very nice car, but I'm not a fan of turbos.
 
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sjlee said:
Good point. From my perspective, I'm comparing cars under $30k... everything thing from performance to features and reliability.

The Subaru is a very nice car, but I'm not a fan of turbos.
Not a fan of turbos myself. I consider that to be a legitimate concern. I prefer N/A myself but the GT is so much fun, you stop and consider it. I never preferred blondes myself. I only dated one blonde in my life and I ended up marrying her, but I understand that turbos can be more work in the long run. I just don't like the blanket statements that Honda/Acura is God's gift to the world and everything else is crap. There are some really nice cars out there: The G35, Audi, BMW and yes, even the Legacy GT.
 

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nachob said:
For that matter, Consumer Reports has just released their quality survery results and they state that Subaru is the most reliable brand.
I've been a Honda freak for years, and my wife and I have gone through many Hondas/Acuras, and we've never stepped foot in the dealership for a problem. This dates back to the late 80's with a Civic Si to our current TSX and my wife's Ody.

I decided to stray once, because the power and AWD were too tempting.....



Now, I'm not going to make a blanket statement and say that all Subie's are bad, but boy was mine a hunk of crap. And this was difficult for me as I had gone years without having to deal with car problems.

The transmission felt like it was a stick rowing through a bucket of rocks. It constantly ground in 2nd gear. It wouldn't engage 1st unless you were at a dead stop (this was supposed to be a "feature" of the tranny). And I had the STi short shifter, but it didn't improve it. The clutch shuddered. The radiator decided that it didn't like holding coolant. The worst part was the ABS brakes. If you hit a bump and ABS engaged, the pedal would on occasion drop to floor and give no braking power at all until you lifted and hit the pedal again. Two close calls at stoplights had me heading for the Honda dealership for a trade in. The dealer made it sound as if i was bothering him with these problems, never fixed any of them.

I'm sorry to hear about your problems with the TSX; I know how frustrating dealing with a new vehicle that doesn't meet your expectations can be. But, looking at JD Power, the rankings for Subaru aren't even industry average.







 
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