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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been searching around for a couple of days, google, hondatech, here, etc. And so far I havent been able to find any good threads on what is needed to swap in a EuroR K20A into a 1st gen TSX. I have found dozens of links and threads on swapping body parts over (headlights, body kits, air bags etc...) but all of this is pointless to me, I'd rather have a stock appearing exterrior on this car.

What I have:
Completely stock USDM 2006 TSX 6spd (non-tech) with stock K24A2

Why I'm considering switching:
The car has alittle over 100k miles on it and I'm having numerous problems that a honda shouldn't have this soon, worn motor mounts, broken flex pipe on header(most likely from worn motor mounts), cracked clutch pedal, worn out shifter box(on awoc's list for a new shifter), leaking clutch slave cylinder, grinding 2nd gear, rattling throw out bearing, and probably an origional clutch.

I'm a technician and have a large amount of tools and reasources avialable to me however even if I replace all of these issues for quite a bit of money and allot of time invested (my time/ effort is worth more to me) and the car will still have the joyless drive by wire system that sucks all the fun out of driving the car spiritedly. Plus I can't leave well enough alone.

I'm finnishing up a stroker build for my Prelude and once that is up and running I'll be wanting to start working on the TSX. I'm not interested in building this motor (the k24 or the k20), it's for my daily and I would rather a smaller displacement higher reving and more efficent motor, I may swap over the cams if there is gains to be had or mabey the 6th gear from the k24 tranny (iirc it is allitle better for highway mileage).

What I want to know?
-The EuroR K20A does have a throttle cable right? No DBW bullshit.
-If left internally stock will a RBC ECU be plug and play for innitial startup untill a FlashPro setup can be sourced? If not what is needed to use it/ or will FlashPro be needed right away?
-Will I need to use the EuroR wiring harness or can I use the 06 factory TSX harness
-What will I need to convert the accelerator pedal from DBW to throttle cable?
-Will I have to change any sensors on the engine/ transmission
-Is there a difference in the K20A EuroR RBC engines from year to year? IE, is there one I should be looking for? (I am aware of the FD2 Civic EuroR)
-What other things should I need to consider? I don't have to worry about emissions here, but I don't care to have a check engine light on or driveability issues because of the swap. Will my automatic climate control/ VSA/ Guage cluster info center work properly with the RBC ecu? Will I need different parts like axles/ mounts/ hoses, etc?



I'm sure I'll have more questions as things continue, and I may end up selling the car for what I wanted(93-94ish Accord Sedan) at some point if things become too expensive or difficult to source. After the 'New Car' effect wore off I have been overall displeased with the car even though I've been wanting one since they came out.

Thanks to all for any pointers, info or links!

Nathan
 

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J-Spec
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So, all you want is a K20A? It's easy...

You need this exhaust: http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/tsx-classifieds/60043-euro-r-exhaust-header-catalyst-06-intake-tb.html

US Honda Accord throttle cable: 17910-SDA-A03
This cable bolts right up to the TSX pedal assembly. :tu:

Since the K20A doesn't have DBW, you should use the CL7 RBC ECU or an RSX Type-S ECU. The RBC ECU cannot be converted to K-Pro, so you need to make the decision at some point as to what ECU you want to run. The RBC ECU may or may not generate the proper data for the instrument cluster, but if it doesn't, then you can use this device to generate the data (also necessary with an RSX ECU):



The axles and hoses are the same, but the CL7 has EPS, so you will have to swap your PS pump from the K24 to the K20. All the engine mounts are the same.

Here is the Euro-R page: Honda�bƒAƒR�[ƒh Euro R�i2008”N11ŒŽ�I—¹ƒ‚ƒfƒ‹�j
 

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Higher revving and ITBs come to mind as reasons why for me but even that was not enough to sway me into doing it. The fact it has an 8000 redline stock and 8500 tuned with M&M Honda ITBs sounds amazing. I would love to own a setup like that but money needed is crazy.
 

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....its fate....
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If it's a daily then why do u want to lose torque? There are plenty of rsx's that do k24 conversions for torque gains, but why would u want to lose torque by reducing displacement?
You say u want to save on fuel economy, but the price of build for parts and time might be worth years of petrol cost difference lol. Just keep the k24 and build it.
The shorter stroke just let's the engine rev much quicker and faster which is what I love about the k20.
 

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....but money needed is crazy.
For someone with such a long list of quality parts on their car, bling bling car trailer and an is-f, I thought money was something that u have crazy amounts of! :laugh:
 

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J-Spec
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Although the K20A is doable, I would stick with the K24. 100k miles on a Honda engine is nothing to be concerned about. It's far less hassle to put the "fun" factor into the K24.

I had an RSX before with a K20A and I know what you want... a fast revving, quick shifting screaming Honda. :D

Well, here is what you do to the K24:

Engine:

Decent header and exhaust
RRC intake manifold
RRC crank pulley (and new belt)
Thermal gaskets for manifold and TB
2nd gen TSX intake cam and cam gear
2007 TSX ECU
FlashPro

Trans:

K20A flywheel
8th gen Civic Si trans complete internals (this will give you closer ratios, the same 6th gear and FD and an LSD)
Bardi shifter or complete Mugen CL7 shifter

You can get a lot of the parts from AutoFair Honda, including the JDM parts.
 

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After 100, 000 miles on your TSX, the issues you listed that your TSX currently has are minor & normal IMO.

Hondata claimed that FlashPro would help with the lame TSX DBW response but I haven't seen anyone report on this nor any discussions on how to modify the DBW parameters in the ECU firmware.
Perhaps it's just because FlashPro for the TSX has not been out long enough.

If you still absolutely need to go to a cable throttle body, just convert your existing K24 engine. No need to swap in all the Euro stuff.
Of course, it is not easy to convert the TSX to a cable TB. According to this forum, very few, if any street cars have been converted & only a handful of dedicated track TSX's
 

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ive allready mulled this one over myself, even thought about importing a proper cl7 euro r.

for the price it would cost to swap the engine i can tune mine to make more power, and as everyone else has said, more torque, better gear ratios and an lsd and thats better than a euro r.

now theres flash pro the potential in the k24 is like the horizon , just endless :D
 

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IMO bad idea. K24 have much more power and torque potential. CL chassis needs torque more than pawa ) CL9 have shitty tranny ratios, thats true for MT and AT , as noted above it can be solved by swappin k20 tranny into your housing + LSD. +25% of hp and torque is easily can be reached with decent mods, DBW can be tuned to behave like a cable one with 1:1 ratio, flashpro can do the magic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks guys for the replies, this information is what I'm looking for.

As far as why, besides the above mentioned things there is always an intangeable for why we want to do things like this. Why do people put $4k wheels on daily drivers, why do people build show cars that ride in a trailor, why do any of us modify our cars when 98% of the time we are using them to do chores like work and getting groceries. We all have our reasons and that is what makes us car nuts, well car nuts.

The above posts also gives me the 'why nots' that I need to weigh against the 'whys'.

I may very well try the flashpro setup with a stock ish clutch on a lighter flywheel and see what that does for the throttle response. It may be enough to please me and would be fairly easy to re-sell if it doesn't. I have considered all the above mods for keeping the K24, and they are good ideas for making power out of this motor and keeping the factory style engine controls. I'm not too concerned with overall power output (thats what my prelude is for) and as far as fuel mileage goes I want whatever I do to it be a positive change but know it will never outweight the initial costs. I did concider the CRZ which was in a similar price range but wanted something more comfortable and useful (i've transported motors and other car parts around in the TSX that never would have fit in the CRZ).


The car that I have the most fun in is my 97 VW GTI beater that the TSX was susposed to replace (I just got it running again to sell) and it weighs a bout 3200LBS and only makes about 90 whp. It's a turd but banging through the gears, maxing it out the revs, throwing it around corners and listening to the glaspacks crackle all while still being under the speed limit is a blast.

Only problem is it is about as reliable as a politician.
 

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How difficult is it to convert to cable throttle?
As far as I know, we need accord throttle body and tune with k-pro or flash pro?
 

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How difficult is it to convert to cable throttle?
As far as I know, we need accord throttle body and tune with k-pro or flash pro?

LOL, we all wish it was that easy. If it was, we would ALL have cable throttle bodies in our TSX's.. :)

The problem is that the TSX ECU will not support a cable throttle body. It's not designed for it, not firmware not h/w.
Even with the mickey mouse hybrid cable system it has.
 

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in all honesty, I know why you guys hate dbw, but I kind of like it, for my lazy save gas driving habits, I don't ever have to push the pedal very far.
 

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I'll talk to my engine builder and see what he thinks about converting to cable throttle. Thing about this forum is that initially, ppl tend to say that things aren't possible or easy but once someone does it, then all of a sudden it opens up all the supposed closed doors. Staggered wheels and low offsets, Turbo setups, NA builds and good power gains with our motor are some that come to mind.
We all just need to do our own research. To OP, a great place to learn is k20a.org. Plenty of info and dyno results to assist ur decision.
 

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J-Spec
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I'll talk to my engine builder and see what he thinks about converting to cable throttle. Thing about this forum is that initially, ppl tend to say that things aren't possible or easy but once someone does it, then all of a sudden it opens up all the supposed closed doors. Staggered wheels and low offsets, Turbo setups, NA builds and good power gains with our motor are some that come to mind.
We all just need to do our own research. To OP, a great place to learn is k20a.org. Plenty of info and dyno results to assist ur decision.
If you have a DC5 ECU with K-Pro, then it's no problem converting to cable type TB. Use the Accord throttle cable that I mentioned or the K-Tuned cable assembly. For TB you can use a CL7 or aftermarket TB. You obviously won't have cruise control or VSA anymore.

Do you have a dual ECU setup? You can eliminate the stock ECU with the TC1 module I mentioned. You can also eliminate the APP sensor/cable. The wiring can be modified to accommodate the TPS and IACV on the new TB.
 

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How difficult is it to convert to cable throttle?
As far as I know, we need accord throttle body and tune with k-pro or flash pro?
It's not hard to do.

The tricky bit is having to manually run x4 wires from the new T.B's TPS sensor directly to your Kpro ecu.

Cable tb conv also gets you back the loss of idle speed control most of us have when running Kpro as you can use the Oem iacv again.

Trip computer won't display "range" or "bar graph" info anymore after that though but who needs it.
 

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Guys , i repeat once again , just forget bout cable coversion coz flashpro gives you access to DBW map. Stock map is damped for lots of reasons, smooth driving, economy and so on, for example you push 30% and ECU "see" just 20% and so on. Now u can set your map 1:1 , you pushed 10% and you have real 10% , just like cable do . You can make it even more crazy , you pushed 10% and ecu see 20% LOL . Thanks Hondata for this magic !

Ask k-tune where do they pick up signal bout pedal position for kpro ecu , all those limitations i mentioned were in TSX ecu . Now engine is controlled by kpro and dbw works like cable there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Forgot about k20a.org, have an account there from my kswap/ prelude research.

If flashpro will open up the maps for the drive by wire and I can get a 1:1 ratio then I will probably be just fine with that and a little lighter flywheel. I have driven toyota's and fords with modified dbw systems and they are much improved.

About a year ago I was researching the K24a2 and the K20a EuroR for swapping into my prelude(the mount kit limits me to the accord transmissions) and there was no known setups for modifying the dbw on the 2.4 so I was planning on swapping over a k20 manifold and tb and using kpro. But then I would need an RSX harness and patch for the speed sensor, and the better oil pump for high rpms, and I found it would be easier and cheaper to buy an EuroR swap then track down a TSX swap with 6spd. Plus I wasnt as familiar with k motors as h/f motors so I wasnt wanting to piece together a motor.

Once I get back on my laptop ill edit the info for the swap into the first post so anyone searching will have it at hand.
 
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