[Thorn2004]

As some of you might already know, the Acura TSX is called the Honda Accord Euro here in Australia. Here is The Euro's official Honda website for those who are interested in seeing the similarities/differences between the TSX and Australia's Euro

http://www.honda.com.au/accord/euro/

or without the fancy intro :

Luxury

http://www.honda.com.au/Accord/Euro/EuroLuxury/index.htm

Standard Euro

http://www.honda.com.au/Accord/Euro/Euro/index.htm

As you might have noticed we have 2 versions of the Euro, the Standard version which I am getting and the Luxury version which is most similar to your TSX! The differences between the 2 models are mainly superficial, the mechanics and body are exactly the same, the Luxury model however has some added extra's, like leather seats, optional woodgrain interior, heated seats, curtain airbags (the standard Euro only has front and side airbags), rain sensitive wipers, a sunroof (moonroof?),and front fog lamps!

Some of these extra's can be installed afterwards for a cheaper cost however, which is why I am getting the standard version, I don't have much use for Heated Seats, a sunroof (moonroof?), or Rain sensitive wipers! The curtain airbags would have been nice but heck it already has front and side airbags as standard, the fog lamps... well I can add them on later that isn't an issue ! It was a matter of weighing up the cost compared to what you get!

With the extra money I saved on getting the standard Euro I added some other features such as Ming Quality Tinted Windows, and an OEM spoiler to go with my Arctic Blue, Honda Accord Euro

Update: The car is arriving next Monday, the 21st of June, all things going to plan I should have it within a week !

 

[Joker]

Awesome post Thorn!!
Thank you :thumbsup:

 

[Thorn2004]

Awesome post Thorn!!
Thank you :thumbsup:

Your welcome

 

[larchmont]

Regarding differences betweeen the Euro and the TSX: My understanding is that if we forget about cosmetics, bells & whistles etc., the main differences between the cars are:

(1) Power (TSX is a bit more), and
(2) Suspension (don't know exactly what, but my impression is that the TSX's is more "sport")
(I've seen it written that the TSX suspension is "more finely tuned," but who knows what that means????)

Do you know if these are correct, plus any details about them?
And, are there any OTHER fundamental differences between the Euro and the TSX?

 

[TSX 'R' US]

Sweeet!! I've been on that site a few times...love that intro. :thumbsup:

 

[yf1]

Update: The car is arriving next Monday, the 21st of June, all things going to plan I should have it within a week ![/QUOTE]

Thorn - make sure you check out ozhonda.com

I have the same Euro as you in Melb. Congrats on your purchase

 

[Thorn2004]

Regarding differences betweeen the Euro and the TSX: My understanding is that if we forget about cosmetics, bells & whistles etc., the main differences between the cars are:

(1) Power (TSX is a bit more), and
(2) Suspension (don't know exactly what, but my impression is that the TSX's is more "sport")
(I've seen it written that the TSX suspension is "more finely tuned," but who knows what that means????)

Do you know if these are correct, plus any details about them?
And, are there any OTHER fundamental differences between the Euro and the TSX?

Well I would have to get all the details of the TSX to make a comparison, but as far as I know the Power of the Euro is the same as the TSX as it uses exactly the same engine settup, the suspension is also meant to be the same, and has been written up here in many reviews/articles that it is quite sporty and firm? As far as I can discern the only real differences between the Euro and the TSX is the Euro has 2 versions, and of course the steering settup is on the opposite side of the car Also we don't have the option of Navi at the moment as far as I know, but we have an option on the luxury for 'Rain Sensitive Wipers' !

 

[Thorn2004]

Update: The car is arriving next Monday, the 21st of June, all things going to plan I should have it within a week !

Thorn - make sure you check out ozhonda.com

I have the same Euro as you in Melb. Congrats on your purchase[/QUOTE]
____________________________________________________________

I live in Melbourne too Are you the one who bought my Euro from the car dealer in Prahan? Well I was meant to be getting the Arctic Blue Euro from a Honda Dealer there but it was sold on the same day as I put the paper work through apparently This is why I have had to wait a month for it, did you get the Arctic Blue Euro too? Do you have any pics? Are you happy with it?

Thanks for the link too I didn't know about Ozhonda, is there anything pacific about that site that I should know about? I wonder if there is any way I can check when dealers are getting their deliveries and what and when it is being delivered?

 

[TSX 'R' US]

Update: The car is arriving next Monday, the 21st of June, all things going to plan I should have it within a week !

Thorn - make sure you check out ozhonda.com

I have the same Euro as you in Melb. Congrats on your purchase

Sweeet!! Congrats and welcome to the site!! :wavey:

 

[larchmont]

Well I would have to get all the details of the TSX to make a comparison, but as far as I know the Power of the Euro is the same as the TSX as it uses exactly the same engine setup, the suspension is also meant to be the same, and has been written up here in many reviews/articles that it is quite sporty and firm?.....

Let's see what we might be able to find out about these things. I'm pretty sure there are differences.

Regarding power: In the TSX, hp is 200 @ 6800, and torque is 166 lb-ft @ 4500. From what I remember seeing about the Euro, I think the hp is about 15% less but I'm not sure.
Don't remember ever seeing anything specific about the Euro's suspension, just the vague statement that the TSX's is different.

 

[Thorn2004]

Let's see what we might be able to find out about these things. I'm pretty sure there are differences.

Regarding power: In the TSX, hp is 200 @ 6800, and torque is 166 lb-ft @ 4500. From what I remember seeing about the Euro, I think the hp is about 15% less but I'm not sure.
Don't remember ever seeing anything specific about the Euro's suspension, just the vague statement that the TSX's is different.

Well you have to do some conversions from the metric system (which you guys should be using by now ) The Accord Euro has 140 KW of power, I am not sure what that is compared to horsepower but I remember reading somewhere about it being close to 200 HP, the auto I think has 190 and the Manual 200 HP, still not much difference there ! The Engine sure looks the same from the screenshots I have seen from both the TSX and the Euro?

Not sure about the torque, but I think the suspension is the same from what I have read, I have seen lots of articles on the Euro, I can post some if you guys like? Either way I know that the Euro does 0-100k's (60mph) in around 7.5 seconds, although I have seen conflicting accounts of that, some say 7.2, 7.5, others 8.0 or 8.2? I think it depends on the road conditions and tyre brands.

 

[larchmont]

Well you have to do some conversions from the metric system (which you guys should be using by now ) The Accord Euro has 140 KW of power, I am not sure what that is compared to horsepower but I remember reading somewhere about it being close to 200 HP.....

Thanks for the data -- allows us to start doing some math.

Conversion factor: HP = number of KW x 1.34

140 KW = 187.6 hp

According to this, the difference is a little over 6%.

Not a lot. But to many people, it makes a difference.
Even to me. When discussions of increasing HP come up, I'm usually the one who's most saying that he doesn't care that much about having any more.
But I wouldn't like to have 6% less.

Don't get me wrong. If there were no TSX here but we did have the Euro, I'm pretty sure the Euro is the car I'd pick, even over the TL!

Also: As is implied by what you said, even though "200" is the single figure that is put out by Acura for the TSX, that can't be totally accurate, if for no other reason than that the manual and the automatic must be a bit different -- so, which one does the "200" apply to? AFAIK, we don't know. And also, we see it said sometimes that the "200" is actually a modest figure, probably an understatement. So, is it too low a figure for the manual but too high a figure for the automatic? Or what? We don't really know, it's just a stat.
And likewise probably the figure for the Euro.
So let's not get carried away with this calculated 6% difference. It doesn't have any great degree of accuracy or certainty.

But if it really is a 6% difference, we'll take it.
Look at it this way: How much would we drool over rumors that the '05 TSX would have a 6% (12 hp) increase in power?
We wouldn't exactly drown in our saliva, but we would drool.

 

[Thorn2004]

Thanks for the data -- allows us to start doing some math.

Conversion factor: HP = number of KW x 1.34

140 KW = 187.6 hp

According to this, the difference is a little over 6%.

Not a lot. But to many people, it makes a difference.
Even to me. When discussions of increasing HP come up, I'm usually the one who's most saying that he doesn't care that much about having any more.
But I wouldn't like to have 6% less.

Don't get me wrong. If there were no TSX here but we did have the Euro, I'm pretty sure the Euro is the car I'd pick, even over the TL!

Also: As is implied by what you said, even though "200" is the single figure that is put out by Acura for the TSX, that can't be totally accurate, if for no other reason than that the manual and the automatic must be a bit different -- so, which one does the "200" apply to? AFAIK, we don't know. And also, we see it said sometimes that the "200" is actually a modest figure, probably an understatement. So, is it too low a figure for the manual but too high a figure for the automatic? Or what? We don't really know, it's just a stat.
And likewise probably the figure for the Euro.
So let's not get carried away with this calculated 6% difference. It doesn't have any great degree of accuracy or certainty.

But if it really is a 6% difference, we'll take it.
Look at it this way: How much would we drool over rumors that the '05 TSX would have a 6% (12 hp) increase in power?
We wouldn't exactly drown in our saliva, but we would drool.

Thanks for the maths, I had no idea about the conversion Well it is like you said, who knows what is exactly accurate? I mean like you said what does the 140 KW's of power in the Euro relate to, the auto or manual? :donno: For all we know the 140 KW figure was attained by measuring the auto variant? If that is the case then how much does the manual have? 150 KW's ? 155 ? :donno: Also it works for your TSX too, if 200 HP is the figure taken for the Manual then surely the Auto would have less HP ? I guess it is all relative ! Either way there is no changing the outcome, the Euro is based on the same technology setup as the TSX is, so I don't know if they made any differences when they shipped it to the US market!

 

[larchmont]

Thanks for the maths, I had no idea about the conversion Well it is like you said, who knows what is exactly accurate? I mean like you said what does the 140 KW's of power in the Euro relate to, the auto or manual? :donno: For all we know the 140 KW figure was attained by measuring the auto variant? If that is the case then how much does the manual have? 150 KW's ? 155 ? :donno: Also it works for your TSX too, if 200 HP is the figure taken for the Manual then surely the Auto would have less HP ? I guess it is all relative ! Either way there is no changing the outcome, the Euro is based on the same technology setup as the TSX is, so I don't know if they made any differences when they shipped it to the US market!

Yes. About that last part, they SAID they did (although if you asked me to cite something from Honda/Acura, I wouldn't know where to start looking). And the supposed differences that I noted (vague though they are) have been said in various places.

In any event, it's interesting that even though it is said so often that the TSX is just a Euro Accord, and that the various other Acuras are just Honda whatevers, the Honda/Acura corp. hasn't gone out of its way to trumpet forth what the differences are.

Which could mean a lot of things, one of which is that the differences really aren't that significant. But I think the most likely reason is that they just don't want to start getting into it. Perhaps (or probably) most of the North American market just ASSUMES that Acuras are significantly differerent than Hondas, and far superior, and maybe Honda/Acura is happy to just let that stand.

 

[Thorn2004]

Yes. About that last part, they SAID they did (although if you asked me to cite something from Honda/Acura, I wouldn't know where to start looking). And the supposed differences that I noted (vague though they are) have been said in various places.

In any event, it's interesting that even though it is said so often that the TSX is just a Euro Accord, and that the various other Acuras are just Honda whatevers, the Honda/Acura corp. hasn't gone out of its way to trumpet forth what the differences are.

Which could mean a lot of things, one of which is that the differences really aren't that significant. But I think the most likely reason is that they just don't want to start getting into it. Perhaps (or probably) most of the North American market just ASSUMES that Acuras are significantly differerent than Hondas, and far superior, and maybe Honda/Acura is happy to just let that stand.

Well only they would know the real reason behind them not providing the information to the public. I was under the impression that Acura was made up by Honda to throw a smokescreen over the American public so that they believed that it wasn't a japanese made car? Not only this they made everyone believe that the Acura is a higher quality/standard branch of Honda and maybe it is, however I just assumed that all Honda's these days are a higher standard and quality car, well at least the ones sold in Australia are. If we wanted to do the same thing here in Australia we could, but the simple thing is I don't think there is as big of a market here for it, sure we could label Honda differently but what is the point it is still Honda. Would we catorgorise Honda's depending on their quality and price?

The way I see it, Honda's are of a different/higher standard than some other makes of cars here in Australia. I would consider the overall quality and build of a Honda in generall, superior to that of a GM made car, or a Toyota or even a Ford. This is why think Honda Australia decided not to make an Acura like ploy, Australian's already recognised that Honda is a higher quality car and Australians were I guess more open about purchasing a Japanese made car.

The Accord Euro was labelled an Accord simply because the Accord Models are luxurious and people can relate to that. The problem is that the Euro is so much different to the V6 Accord, it is smaller, sportier and just as luxurious; infact you can't really compare the V6 Accord to the Euro. So when you mention the term 'Accord Euro' people here don't necessarily think of the 'Euro' part and tend to picture the V6 Accord unless they actually see a picture of the Euro. Whether this is a mistake made by Honda's marketing department I am not sure, however I still think that they should have just called it the 'Honda Euro', or something along those lines to make it more independant. Afterall I think the Euro/TSX is a strong enough model to stand on it's own 2 feet !

Just some food for thaught

 

[kiteboy]

Automakers usually quote HP measured at the crankshaft, before the power goes thru the tranny. Therefore, the number is independent of the tranmission type, and also doesn't take those losses into account. The only exception I can think of is when the engine is tuned differently for AT vs. MT (e.g. RX-8).

I have the brochure for the Euro Accord (sorry, too big to post) and there are a few differences in the details. I'll compare the TSX vs. 2.4 Executive, which is the closest match.

TSX has:
- better interior (the Euro Accord has the USDM Accord interior, incl. centre stack).
- standard 17" rims (16" on Accord)
- 200 hp (the brochure indicated 190 hp for Accord)
- gated AT shifter

Accord 2.4 Executive has:
- rain sensing wipers
- headlight washers
- rear centre headrest
- integrated keyfob
- heated mirrors (the Cdn TSX has these too)
- storage bin under VSA switch
- brake assist & EBD
- auto-leveling HID

Both cars have navigation. Of course, the Accords in lower trim levels will have less equipment.

 

[Thorn2004]

Automakers usually quote HP measured at the crankshaft, before the power goes thru the tranny. Therefore, the number is independent of the tranmission type, and also doesn't take those losses into account. The only exception I can think of is when the engine is tuned differently for AT vs. MT (e.g. RX-8).

I have the brochure for the Euro Accord (sorry, too big to post) and there are a few differences in the details. I'll compare the TSX vs. 2.4 Executive, which is the closest match.

TSX has:
- better interior (the Euro Accord has the USDM Accord interior, incl. centre stack).
- standard 17" rims (16" on Accord)
- 200 hp (the brochure indicated 190 hp for Accord)
- gated AT shifter

Accord 2.4 Executive has:
- rain sensing wipers
- headlight washers
- rear centre headrest
- integrated keyfob
- heated mirrors (the Cdn TSX has these too)
- storage bin under VSA switch
- brake assist & EBD
- auto-leveling HID

Both cars have navigation. Of course, the Accords in lower trim levels will have less equipment.

Make sure you are comparing it to the Accord Euro, not the normall Accord, they are 2 totally different cars Like I mentioned above the Euro is not really an Accord, but they named it Accord so Australians would identify the Euro as luxury. There is the Euro Luxury and the Euro Standard.

Look in my first post here for the Euro website, it has a list of features there, maybe you guys can post the TSX features then we can make a comparison? I will do a hunt and see what I can find in basic features !

This is the Accord

http://www.honda.com.au/showroom1/accord/index.htm

This is the Accord Euro

http://www.honda.com.au/showroom1/accordeuro/index.htm


Here is a list a link to the area where all the features are listed, TSX owners should be able to make a comparison between the Euro and TSX

http://www.honda.com.au/Accord/Euro/EuroLuxury/Features/Features.htm

 

[larchmont]

Well only they would know the real reason behind them not providing the information to the public. I was under the impression that Acura was made up by Honda to throw a smokescreen over the American public so that they believed that it wasn't a japanese made car?.....

when you mention the term 'Accord Euro' people here don't necessarily think of the 'Euro' part and tend to picture the V6 Accord unless they actually see a picture of the Euro. Whether this is a mistake made by Honda's marketing department I am not sure, however I still think that they should have just called it the 'Honda Euro', or something along those lines to make it more independant. Afterall I think the Euro/TSX is a strong enough model to stand on it's own 2 feet !.....

About the first part: I don't think it's that Honda fails to reveal the differences, just that they don't make a big thing about those specifics, and they don't go out of their way to make them clear.
About the origin of the Acura thing: Yes, it was to throw a bit of a smokescreen, but I'm sure it wasn't to hide the fact that it's Japanese.

I happen to know about this because I was "right there" at the time, as an attentive potential buyer. I remember very well how it was put forth and how it was received. The idea was to make us think it was different enough from Hondas that they could be regarded as "luxury," with prices to match. But the Japanese pedigree wasn't hidden; in fact, the Honda connection was used as a way to reassure us that the cars were of high quality and reliability. About the "luxury" thing, I remember that at the very beginning, I thought it was ridiculous, and I laughed at it -- how could anybody regard a Honda as a luxury car, and who would ever pay $20,000 for one? (That's about what the original Legends went for. At the time, BMW 3's were about the same or maybe slightly more. I think Accords ranged from about $9000-$13,000.) But immediately the reviews and other feedback were extremely positive, and pretty soon I was considering the Legend to replace my BMW 320i, and I did. I remember that when I was talking about the background of Acura with one of the Acura salesmen, I said, "I understand it's made by a division of Honda" (which was a phrase I got from Consumer Reports). He interrupted and said, "It's made by Honda." They never hid the Honda connection, and they never tried to make people overlook or forget that it was Japanese; that was one of the selling points.

Thanks for all the perspectives you're giving us about the story of the Accords in Australia. Really, it's all news to us.

 

[larchmont]

Make sure you are comparing it to the Accord Euro, not the normall Accord, they are 2 totally different cars Like I mentioned above the Euro is not really an Accord, but they named it Accord so Australians would identify the Euro as luxury. There is the Euro Luxury and the Euro Standard.

Look in my first post here for the Euro website, it has a list of features there, maybe you guys can post the TSX features then we can make a comparison? I will do a hunt and see what I can find in basic features !

This is the Accord

http://www.honda.com.au/showroom1/accord/index.htm

This is the Accord Euro

http://www.honda.com.au/showroom1/accordeuro/index.htm


Here is a list a link to the area where all the features are listed, TSX owners should be able to make a comparison between the Euro and TSX

http://www.honda.com.au/Accord/Euro/EuroLuxury/Features/Features.htm

Confusing, ain't it? Hopefully by the time we're done with all this, we'll have a lot straightened out.

 

[Thorn2004]

About the first part: I don't think it's that Honda fails to reveal the differences, just that they don't make a big thing about those specifics, and they don't go out of their way to make them clear.
About the origin of the Acura thing: Yes, it was to throw a bit of a smokescreen, but I'm sure it wasn't to hide the fact that it's Japanese.

I happen to know about this because I was "right there" at the time, as an attentive potential buyer. I remember very well how it was put forth and how it was received. The idea was to make us think it was different enough from Hondas that they could be regarded as "luxury," with prices to match. But the Japanese pedigree wasn't hidden; in fact, the Honda connection was used as a way to reassure us that the cars were of high quality and reliability. About the "luxury" thing, I remember that at the very beginning, I thought it was ridiculous, and I laughed at it -- how could anybody regard a Honda as a luxury car, and who would ever pay $20,000 for one? (That's about what the original Legends went for. At the time, BMW 3's were about the same or maybe slightly more. I think Accords ranged from about $9000-$13,000.) But immediately the reviews and other feedback were extremely positive, and pretty soon I was considering the Legend to replace my BMW 320i, and I did. I remember that when I was talking about the background of Acura with one of the Acura salesmen, I said, "I understand it's made by a division of Honda" (which was a phrase I got from Consumer Reports). He interrupted and said, "It's made by Honda." They never hid the Honda connection, and they never tried to make people overlook or forget that it was Japanese; that was one of the selling points.

Thanks for all the perspectives you're giving us about the story of the Accords in Australia. Really, it's all news to us.

Well at first Australians didn't consider Honda as a real luxury car either, this is going back a few years; it was more of a run around car, a small car, then things began to change. The Honda Prelude arrived, now this is a sporty sedan which you guys might or not know about, and it was well made and high quality. This was the beginning of the change, the Accord arrived soon after and the Civic was still a strong mid range option, cheap enough to be readily affordable but still with Honda's unique styling and quality. Soon after the S2000 appeared and all doubts about Honda's quality and reliablity faded, this was a big step forward for Honda in Australia, they completely changed their image and reputation!

Now the Euro has arrived, and I can tell you this model has knocked many people off their feet, including competing car manufacturers. The Euro is outselling its other competing manufacturers in its class 5 to 1 ! I have yet to see a negative review of the Euro, and I have done some searching, so either Honda has brainwashed us into believing that the Euro is a great car, or they have found a winner here in Australia !