[larchmont]

Sometimes people say that the TSX is the "replacement for the Integra," and while it's not right, it's not totally wrong. (They also say that the RSX replaced the Integra, which is probably closer but not really right either.)

As far as I know, there hasn't been much on the TSX forums about how the Integra compares with the TSX. I've never been in an Integra, so I have no idea.

I see that SJLee has been dropping by, who I think is a current or former Integra owner. It would be interesting if he and others who know the Integra might talk about how it compares with the TSX.

 

[hondafreak4eva]

yeah RSX and Teg are much more in line that the TSX and Teg... except maybe for the sedan version of the teg... no rsx four door version was ever created... :confused

i've driven the tsx and driven a 2 door teg... QUITE different cars...

 

[tony4311]

totaly different in my opinion. I own a 2 door ls along with the TSX. The Integra will always be my favorite so maybe I'm biased

 

[larchmont]

So, everybody seems to just say it's totally different, maybe so different that the whole question is barely worth more than a


I'm so embarrassed.


But I'd still love to hear about the differences. Or just, what kind of car really is the Integra? I mean, how could it be that totally different? I wouldn't say that about the Accord, maybe not even the Civic! So how much different could the Integra be?

Then again sometimes I'm just a lumper and not a splitter.

 

[kiteboy]

The last US Integra was based on the 92-95 Civic. (The RSX is still called the Honda Integra in the rest of the world).

The TSX is of course, the Euro and JDM Accord.

In essence, they are as similar as the Accord and Civic. Which is to say, not very.

 

[larchmont]

The last US Integra was based on the 92-95 Civic. (The RSX is still called the Honda Integra in the rest of the world).

The TSX is of course, the Euro and JDM Accord.

In essence, they are as similar as the Accord and Civic. Which is to say, not very.

Well, I'm sure you're right, up to a point. But this is where it starts getting hairy.

Looking the specs of Integra vs. Civic, I see some things that suggest the cars would have been quite different. The Integra was smaller, yet much heavier. And it had a lot more power.

So it looks to me like the Integra was pretty different from the Civic.

And besides that, the TSX and the N.A. Accord (which is our main idea of what an "Accord" is) are very different. The fact that the TSX is very similar to the Euro Accord doesn't change the fact that in terms of our frames of reference over here, the TSX is not much like the Accord.

Still, I'm sure there's a lot to what you say, that Integra/TSX as a comparison is similar to Civic/Accord -- but only sort of, for all kinds of reasons.

So I'm still wondering. What kind of car is the Integra? It doesn't look to me on paper like it's that similar to the Civic.


(Providing yet more evidence for why I keep getting kicked off TSX forums.)

 

[Junkster]

The model I owned was a 93, so after that, I can't say, but the Integra was a whole different machine from anything else I've driven on the road.

As much as I hate the fact, it was a performance biased Civic with much tighter suspensions and higher engine performance.

I'm biased, since my Integra was truly my fave car of all time. The best part about the car, IMO, was that it was really easy to know the limits of the car. After a month, I could figure out how far I could take the car without going overboard. The feedback in the steering was the best I've driven in a compact sport.

Junkster, who wishes he could still drive that baby.

 

[larchmont]

.....As much as I hate the fact, it was a performance biased Civic with much tighter suspensions and higher engine performance.....
Junkster, who wishes he could still drive that baby.

Larchmont, who's thrilled to have his first chance to say hi to Junkster over here!!!

(Saw your first post too!)


Thanks, Junk -- sounds like there's nothing to hate there, because (IMO) differences like that are enough to make it a very different car.

In fact, doesn't it sound a lot like the differences between "Acuras" and the analogous "Hondas" in general? To a lot of people, those differences seem negligible. But to me, they can make the difference between wanting to have the car and not being interested in the slightest.

I remember the extensive heated debates about how much difference there is between the TSX and the Euro Accord, or even if there is any difference. And what it came down to, besides cosmetic stuff, was mostly power and suspension. That's plenty.

 

[kiteboy]

I'm only comparing the platforms, which is the basic floorplan and architecture.

http://dwolsten.tripod.com/articles/sep93b.html

Another hint of this is that the current RSX / Integra has front mac-struts like the Civic.

Similarly, the TSX, JDM Accord, USDM Accord and TL are all variants of the current global midsize platform.

Each variant will have its own engines and suspension tuning.

What I'm saying is that the Integra shares basic engineering with the Civic and can be considered as variants on the same platform. The Integra and the TSX really don't share very much in common.

 

[larchmont]

Hmmmmm. Nobody's really describing the car. Everybody loves it, but..... Dunno, maybe the Integra just defies description.

 

[kiteboy]

Hmmmmm. Nobody's really describing the car. Everybody loves it, but..... Dunno, maybe the Integra just defies description.

Well, the original question was very open-ended. What basis do you want us to compare the Teg and TSX on? Performance numbers, specifications, engineering, subjective driving impressions, etc. I guess each of us took the question in a different way and answered accordingly. Give us some direction

 

[larchmont]

Well, OK..... I don't mean this a a f****** form to fill out or anything, just some for-instances of how I'd describe a car.

What are the main things about the overall experience? Is it fun? Is it power? Is it comfort? Is it macho, or wuss? Or is it none of these, or a combination? Or is it nothing (think Camry)?

(No offense. I actually considered getting one, a couple of times.)

And: How powerful does it feel? Is there a difference between low end and high end (as there is in the TSX)?
Also sometimes there are some extra, unpredictable things that can be said about the power of some cars; like, a lot of people point out that the TSX feels more powerful than it is. Then again a few say it feels less powerful.

Handling -- How is it in general? Are there some aspects of handling that are particularly notable? Like, a car might feel very nimble generally, but not be that good on cornering. Or vice versa. How sporty does it feel?

Ride comfort -- and in discussing this, IMO it's always good to keep in mind that the frame of reference is other cars of that type and size. Nobody is going to expect an Integra to feel like a Lincoln Town Car, nor like Yugo. But they wonder how the ride feels compared to cars like (maybe) Civic, Corolla, Camry, Accord, Solara, and (now) also TSX.

Engine noise, road noise -- with same considerations as comfort.

Interior -- how nice or not, how cool or not.

And I probably forgot a few things.

And anything else that seems noteworthy about the car compared to other cars.


Just my 5 cents.

 

[alucardian]

wowie looks like i have alot to cover...
first of all i owned and still do a 94 ls auto teg. its been with me for over lets say 4 years. i was the 2nd owner and i have to say its been a real baby to me
i love it
the interior isnt all that but add some bling bling and ice and it will look nice
the ride of the car i love even tho i had the auto ls i loved the way it drove non the less and the handling rocks it was realie realie tight and now its kinda loose but it still has that response like no other car
ride comfort was ok.... till i dropped it 2 inches now its scrappes all the bumbs...(if i was still in dallas this wouldnt be happening) but it handling got alot better
ohoh my teg's engine has alot of noice and road noice after the drop... is that normal???? but anyhow the engine makes noice becuase of the piston rings being alittle offset

ok this is my opinion and what i heard
the integra was based off the civic... almost identical engine and chasis not sure but i heard...
this is becuase the japanese kids wanted something more powerful and better looking then the civis's lil box car. so in japan the civic and the integra is like night and day it has differnt spec from the same type of car.
but since the integra in america is made in america they detuned it down and made more of a family car....(becuase of sales reason)... so basically what i am sayin is that i dont know im juss jibbering lol =)
what we can do is relate the civic and the accord to the RSX(integra) to the TSX...but what makes it difficult is that the american accord, RSX, civic are about 90% american made or 100% made while the TSX is 100% japanese made...
gee im so lost in thought ill get back to you lol

 

[sjlee]

Sorry about responding so late... didn't see this thread until now.

Anyway, yes, I own a '96 Integra GS-R sedan.

The RSX was a replacement for the Integra coupe, while the TSX is a replacement for the Integra sedan.

The Integra (3rd gen) was based off the Civic platform, but had upgraded parts (which have already been mentioned by others. Since the coupe and sedan were built on the same platform, they had about the same amount of interior space (although the coupe was a hatchback, while the sedan had a trunk).

The RSX is still based off the Civic platform, but the TSX is now based off the Euro Accord.

My GS-R is still stock (except for plus sizing the tires), so I think I can give you an accurate description of how it compares.

Basically, the sweet spot of the car is the drivetrain. The motor is so sweet with a redline up to 8100 rpm. The short-throw transmission shifts very nicely, although going from first to second seems to be the only rough spot. The torque is pretty low on the car (only about 127ft-lbs), and the max power isn't until 7600rpms. But... I am still able to easily chirp the tires when shifting from first to second when accelerating hard.

The Integra was designed back in the mid-to-early 90s when Acura/Honda didn't put alot of soundproofing in their cars, so like their other cars of that same time frame, it suffers from quite a bit of road noise.

The ride in the Integra is a little firm, but that's to be expected with its sport tuned suspension. The ride in the GS-R is a bit more harsh and the Type-R is even worse. Car and Driver really liked the Integra and put it into their top 10 quite a few times. They even said that it could have given the Prelude a run for the top handling FWD car, except they thought it was under-tired (crappy Michelins).

I opted for the cloth interior when I bought my GS-R. It's now 8 years old with about 123k miles, and it has held up unbelieveably. There are only a couple of small spots where you can actually see it wearing out. The interior of the Integra was very similar to the Civic and Accord at that time. Not very frilly, but everything is nicely laid out and easy to find (although the cup holder is too small and in a bad place - right below the radio).

From what I've read, the TSX is an evolved version of the Integra sedan... smoother and torquier engine, better ride and more luxury features. However, the Integra is a lighter and smaller car, which means that it is probably more nimble than the TSX. I think one of the reasons Acura/Honda went with the Euro Accord was because one of the main complaints of the Integra was that it was a compact sedan from a luxury car manufacturer... i.e. too small. On a related note, BMW offered a hatchback (318ti) back then which the Integra pretty much owned.

Eventually I will put my GS-R out to pasture (i.e. sell it), and when I do, I'm planning on getting a TSX to replace it.

Anyway, I hope that helps. If you want any more info, let me know.

 

[sjlee]

but since the integra in america is made in america they detuned it down and made more of a family car....(becuase of sales reason)... so basically what i am sayin is that i dont know im juss jibbering lol =)
what we can do is relate the civic and the accord to the RSX(integra) to the TSX...but what makes it difficult is that the american accord, RSX, civic are about 90% american made or 100% made while the TSX is 100% japanese made...
gee im so lost in thought ill get back to you lol

Actually, the Integra was built in Japan, not the US.

Like many other cars imported at that time, it had to be tuned down a bit to not only make it more marketable, but also to meet emission standards.

 

[alucardian]

so true
but its juss one of those lil rumors i heard...
like the supras are acutally tuned better in the us then in japan
and my integra says like 90% american parts... which means there is a factory in america which makes the car....
the original plan was made in japan but we dont import japanese versions of it...xpet the type r i believe....?

 

[DSM]

The first generation of the Integra was 1986-1989. I owned a 1989 LS, which was a hatchback. I traded a Cvic for it, and the difference was striking. The Integra had great fit and finish, was fast and handled well, and was definitely quite sporty for its time. I only traded it when I needed a larger car. My new TSX continues with the same general atributes, but it is a much more potent, better handling, luxurious car with all the safety features (the Integra had very little) that are important.

 

[larchmont]

Great, great stuff!!!!

These posts are giving a very vivid idea of the Integra. And not only that, they amount to a bit of a crash course on Honda and Acura cars in general.

sjlee -- Great posts, but I want to quibble with one thing: I would question whether the Integra is really more nimble than the TSX. I know you only said "probably," and also, as I've said many times, I agree that in general a smaller/lighter car would be more nimble, other things being equal. But the thing is, I don't think that in this case those "other things" are that equal. Of course I'm biased -- of course I would "like" the TSX to be more nimble -- so I don't trust my opinion, plus I've never been in an Integra. But I would think that the superior and more-advanced suspension and body construction of the TSX would make it better handling and more nimble despite being larger and heavier.

I'd love to hear other views on the relative handling/nimbleness between the Integra and the TSX.

 

[sjlee]

and my integra says like 90% american parts... which means there is a factory in america which makes the car....
the original plan was made in japan but we dont import japanese versions of it...xpet the type r i believe....?

What year is your Integra and where are you getting the 90% American parts number from?

I still have my original window sticker in the car, so I'll check mine to see what it says, but I know for sure that it was built in Japan.

 

[sjlee]

Great, great stuff!!!!

These posts are giving a very vivid idea of the Integra. And not only that, they amount to a bit of a crash course on Honda and Acura cars in general.

sjlee -- Great posts, but I want to quibble with one thing: I would question whether the Integra is really more nimble than the TSX. I know you only said "probably," and also, as I've said many times, I agree that in general a smaller/lighter car would be more nimble, other things being equal. But the thing is, I don't think that in this case those "other things" are that equal. Of course I'm biased -- of course I would "like" the TSX to be more nimble -- so I don't trust my opinion, plus I've never been in an Integra. But I would think that the superior and more-advanced suspension and body construction of the TSX would make it better handling and more nimble despite being larger and heavier.

I'd love to hear other views on the relative handling/nimbleness between the Integra and the TSX.

When you say "all things being equal", what do you mean? Normally, when people say that regarding cars, they usually mean, stock vs. stock. Obviously when you're comparing two different cars everything on the cars is not going to be equal.