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Discussion Starter #1
so talking to my brother and another tuner, there is a honda re-flash software out there for the tsx(and other hondas) that can be used to re-flash our stock ecu's.

now with the right software this softwares encryption could actually be broken and this software could be used as an open source tuning program which is what alot of subaru owners use with alot of success.

The software runs $300, but there would be alot of "dis-assembly" to make it an actual open source tuning option for us.

i brother has done some of the dis-assembly on the subaru ecu in the past, but isnt to keen on starting all over again(alot of time and effort is wrapped into this).

now i like the thought of just getting a hondata re-flash but if you know cars then you know you are simply getting a basemap. if cars were 100% universal then one single map would be perfect but there are alot of gains to be had with a pro-tune.


I know there is the k-pro route, but i dont feel losing having of the luxury of the tsx and spending half of what i bought the car for is really an option at all.

so im wanting to see how many people would actually be interested in something like this?????:)
 

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so talking to my brother and another tuner, there is a honda re-flash software out there for the tsx(and other hondas) that can be used to re-flash our stock ecu's.

now with the right software this softwares encryption could actually be broken and this software could be used as an open source tuning program which is what alot of subaru owners use with alot of success.

The software runs $300, but there would be alot of "dis-assembly" to make it an actual open source tuning option for us.

i brother has done some of the dis-assembly on the subaru ecu in the past, but isnt to keen on starting all over again(alot of time and effort is wrapped into this).

now i like the thought of just getting a hondata re-flash but if you know cars then you know you are simply getting a basemap. if cars were 100% universal then one single map would be perfect but there are alot of gains to be had with a pro-tune.


I know there is the k-pro route, but i dont feel losing having of the luxury of the tsx and spending half of what i bought the car for is really an option at all.

so im wanting to see how many people would actually be interested in something like this?????:)
I think you don't know some points ;)
TSX 04-08 use the K-Line Protocol for programming. It is slow (12-15 minutes) and should the programming be interrupted by kicking out a cable or car battery voltage dropping you are in the hole for a new ECU. All reflashed TSX ECUs should be done in controlled conditions. ;)
 

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Where did you get this information?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
but if we were to swap to the rdx ecu which is the canbus style ecu (to my knowledge please correct me if im wrong) would that work better.


if it can plug into the tsx harness, does it still have this k-line protocol. and your point above about losing voltage or power is the case with any ecu your re-flashing, but most ecu's dont take 12-15 minutes to reflash either
 

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I think you don't know some points ;)
TSX 04-08 use the K-Line Protocol for programming. It is slow (12-15 minutes) and should the programming be interrupted by kicking out a cable or car battery voltage dropping you are in the hole for a new ECU. All reflashed TSX ECUs should be done in controlled conditions. ;)
You are correct but it applies to 04-06 from my information. This is why we will NEVER have Flashpro for the 04-06 TSX. The 07-08 is something different and probably could be flashpro'd one day ........ in a galaxy far far away :laugh:
 

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but if we were to swap to the rdx ecu which is the canbus style ecu (to my knowledge please correct me if im wrong) would that work better.


if it can plug into the tsx harness, does it still have this k-line protocol. and your point above about losing voltage or power is the case with any ecu your re-flashing, but most ecu's dont take 12-15 minutes to reflash either

rdx ecu should have canbus style ecu (but there is no any quick flash tool for this ECU) Flashing via K-Line is very slow, with Canbus it can be done in few minutes ;)
I think it would be better somehow to use ECU from Honda Civic Si 06+ (because it can be reflashed by Hondata FlashPro in few min.), question how to connect all + that all gauges worked as with TSX ECU. We need reverse Engineering :)
 

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You are correct but it applies to 04-06 from my information. This is why we will NEVER have Flashpro for the 04-06 TSX. The 07-08 is something different and probably could be flashpro'd one day ........ in a galaxy far far away :laugh:
maybe Hondata didn't had time to mess with TPMS technology on 07-08 ECU, so why there is no any reflash. Also I don't know if on TSX 07-08 OBD II diagnostic port is used K-Line or Canbus protocol for communication with ECU.
From my understanding all TSX 04-08 internally in ECU and between 'multiplex control unit' uses Canbus ;)
 

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so talking to my brother and another tuner, there is a honda re-flash software out there for the tsx(and other hondas) that can be used to re-flash our stock ecu's.

now with the right software this softwares encryption could actually be broken and this software could be used as an open source tuning program which is what alot of subaru owners use with alot of success.

The software runs $300, but there would be alot of "dis-assembly" to make it an actual open source tuning option for us.

i brother has done some of the dis-assembly on the subaru ecu in the past, but isnt to keen on starting all over again(alot of time and effort is wrapped into this).

now i like the thought of just getting a hondata re-flash but if you know cars then you know you are simply getting a basemap. if cars were 100% universal then one single map would be perfect but there are alot of gains to be had with a pro-tune.


I know there is the k-pro route, but i dont feel losing having of the luxury of the tsx and spending half of what i bought the car for is really an option at all.

so im wanting to see how many people would actually be interested in something like this?????:)
Wouldn't you need access to some sort of source code to make it an open source code? I have interest in it but, I havent learned enough about coding to reverse engineer something like this.
 

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Wouldn't you need access to some sort of source code to make it an open source code? I have interest in it but, I havent learned enough about coding to reverse engineer something like this.
I don't think you can access the source code unless you steal the code saved somewhere from Hondata.
 

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the TPMS is a stand alone system.

and i think the change to the ecu/immobilizer system for 07/08 made it so you can't datalog through the OBDII connection, something that had to be manually fixed if 07/08 owners wanted to datalog using the hondata kpro. if they were doing a swap and when it was available. which is moot now since it isn't.
 

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I don't think you can access the source code unless you steal the code saved somewhere from Hondata.
Well thats what I was getting at. True open source code allows access to the source code, as I understand it.
 

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the TPMS is a stand alone system.

and i think the change to the ecu/immobilizer system for 07/08 made it so you can't datalog through the OBDII connection, something that had to be manually fixed if 07/08 owners wanted to datalog using the hondata kpro. if they were doing a swap and when it was available. which is moot now since it isn't.
anybody tried to swap ECU's from 04-06 to 07/08 in real life ? I saw in acura|zine forum one person who wanted to do this, but no info if it was successful swap.
 

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Well thats what I was getting at. True open source code allows access to the source code, as I understand it.
I thought you were talking about acquiring Hondata's code.

But if I were to reverse engineer Hondata's code and made a stable reflash of my own, I don't know if I would want to give it out for free since a lot of time and effort goes into building the code. Cracking Hondata's code and giving it out for free is an act of pure kindness that is rarely found in a person.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
to get the source code it would have to be reverse engineered which a friend of my brothers(subaru tuner that owned a fit) reverse engineered it enough to flash any rom on to his stock ecu, while i dont know the year of the fit the ecu was probably not as "complex" as the 04-06 tsx ecu...but if he could reverse engineer that then more then likely with enough reverse engineering we could have a computer that we could completely reflash....it just takes alotttttt of time to find everything and get past the security efforts that have been put in front of you
 

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Discussion Starter #16
to cyn: go to rom raider.com, or several other opensource forums that it is a helping community that has really helped the scene grow because of it. yes it takes alot of time and effort but can a price be put on helping the whole tsx scene?
 

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to get the source code it would have to be reverse engineered which a friend of my brothers(subaru tuner that owned a fit) reverse engineered it enough to flash any rom on to his stock ecu, while i dont know the year of the fit the ecu was probably not as "complex" as the 04-06 tsx ecu...but if he could reverse engineer that then more then likely with enough reverse engineering we could have a computer that we could completely reflash....it just takes alotttttt of time to find everything and get past the security efforts that have been put in front of you
Might want to do some research and see if Subaru designed theres as an open source code. They might have made it easy to crack just for the tuning community.

Honda's might not be reversable in that sense. Hondata might have been granted access to the source code.

I dont know, Im just playing devils advocate here.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
well i own hondata products and i will say they are stingy a-holes, they pretty well killed pgmfi in one fell swoop and trying to acquire there code from them would land you in middle of court on a monday end story
 

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to cyn: go to rom raider.com, or several other opensource forums that it is a helping community that has really helped the scene grow because of it. yes it takes alot of time and effort but can a price be put on helping the whole tsx scene?
I understand the dedication and power of people coming together for an open source program. It is due to the power of community that makes people come together for a good cause. But the community and interest for the TSX is very small.
 

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I'll keep an eye on this idea. Im about to get a new ECU for a 6spd swap. Once my swap is done, may be I can play around with my current ECU.
 
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