[SlowCivicEx]

I hate starting new threads on problems that have been talked about before. But, I decide to start a new one so I could ask my own questions…


About six months ago I noticed that the clutch pedal started to get soft and grind a little here and there. This was a couple months after installing all my Shifter parts. ( CT SS, HR Bushing, Base bushing.

I started to get a little more worried when the clutch pedal was getting very soft, and grinding a lot more then normal. Also, the clutch pedal starts to engage about ¼ inch off the ground. I have tried everything, and can’t get the clutch to slip in first or second gear.

This morning I tried to adjust the clutch master cylinder as some people mention to do, with little, to no results. I ordered the Slave Cylinder and will be replacing that tomorrow. If that doesn’t fix it, I will be going with the Master Cylinder next.

I also checked the clutch pedal, and from what I can see, there is no cracking what’s so ever. Can anyone chime in on this? Some people swear it’s the clutch, as other say the hydraulic system.

 

[awoc]

Miles on clutch? Look at the input shaft of your master from the inside. Is there oil coming out of it?

 

[SlowCivicEx]

2005 116,000


I looked today when I did the adjustment. I didn't see any oil, but it's very greasy.

 

[Stussy8280]

Before I say anything and start anything I would like to give you a background of myself. I have Been around Hondas the majority of my life working on them both as a Technician 6 yrs and on the side . I currently am employed at a porsche dealership as a tech. Im not gloating just as an fyi...nore am I here to challenge people's intelligence, or insult per say.

2004 tsx
Mileage at start of issue. 95k


I'll give you my symptoms okay. Maybe you can relate. . Mine started with it grinding in reverse just slightly. Then as it got progressively worse it started grinding in first and reverse. So I started thinking maybe I should check this out maybe I should look at it.( when I was employed at the Honda dealership.) Time lapses by 3 months and 5k later, I still have not looked at it. Now my transmission is really grinding in first second and reverse. (Mind during all this the clutch has not slipped at all during DD and spirited driving). So I bled my clutch system doing this confirmed that its not the master, and I watched the slave move as someone pushed on the the clutch pedal, measured from engaged to disengagement and confirmed it by acuras specs. Which I cant remeber. So that throws the clutch hydraulic system out the window as not the issue. Next was the clutch itself. Supported the engine tranaxle engine hoist.drained tranny fluid.flushed it with new fluid No metal came out good. Removed lower subframe removed tranny and clutch/pressure plate. Noticed the fingers on the PP are severely worn down ....weird I thought, clutch was close to being worn out no signs of abnormal wear... wierd again...so as I thought about it.. the worn fingers were not allowing the clutch to fully disengage. Reverse does not have syncros 1st through 6th do. Thus why you have a grind in reverse, the grinding in 1 and 2 was bc the syncros couldnt speed the next gear up. Neutral to 1st shift and 1st to 2nd shift.... so I replaced my clutch/pressure plate/throw out bearing, bolted it all back up. Re filled with honda manual tranny fluid. Problem resolved. No more grinding.



Mind I did this on a sat....with parts in hand and a lift...

Im actually do for a clutch seeing im at 180k now, 200k ill replace the clutch and tear down the tranny and go over it. No major issues as of now and there prolly will not be in the future. I replace my parts based on my driving style and how much mileage is on the vehicle I do not wait till something goes horribly wrong I follow preventative maintenance

I will explain any questions tomorrow. Hope this helps a little.

 

[cYn]

I actually just changed out my CSC today.

First off, I would like to say that I never felt my clutch pedal getting soft. I did, however, felt like my clutch engagement has been sporadic. I usually shift pretty well and pretty smooth. But for the last 6 months or so, I could not consistently shift smooth at all. I changed out the CMC but aside from the clicking noise going away, nothing else was changed.

But when I changed out my CSC, I immediately could tell the difference. I can finally shift smooth from 1st all the way to 6th gear without any hiccup. Something I could not have done before the CSC was changed out.

Now I don't know if the CSC will fix your problem, but from my experience it made the most difference. But I should say this, you should replace the CSC and CMC together only because I feel like when one fails, the other is not far behind.

 

[SlowCivicEx]

Thanks cyn. I'm just triying to get first person experience from this problem! I will do the CMS on Friday. How long did that take you? How long has it been since the CSC was removed and replaced?

 

[cYn]

The CSC is cake. I just replaced it today at 100k miles.

The CMC I paid someone to do it.

 

[SlowCivicEx]

Ok cool. I'm gonna do both, for sure. But hoping the CSC fixes the issue. Keep you updated. Thanks for the input.

 

[curls]

I had very similar issues to you, SlowCivicEX. Mine was getting rpogressively worse grinds in 1st and reverse, and pumping the clutch pedal a few times didn't help. (That was recommended by a mechanic friend as a way to test out the lazy slave).

The crack on my clutch pedal was NOT obvious and was hidden on the outboard side next to the bundles of wires from the fuse panel. A small bright LED pen flashlight and just the right angle made it visible. It wasn't able to be identified by feel as it was flat, but I think moved under pressure of the pedal/spring.

Adjusting the engagement point of the clutch pedal made 100% difference in the grinding in 1st and reverse. I raised the engagement point up from about 1/6th of the way off the floor, to about 2/3 the way up off the floor. That gave me confidence that I wasn't ruining any bearings or riding the clutch, and, I was still able to shift butter-smooth (after a few days of re-learning the engagament point LOL).

The new clutch pedal, adjusted properly, made a significant difference in the firmness of the clutch. Everything was super smooth afterwards, and the firmness was perfect. I think the bracket on the old clutch pedal, which was cracked, was flexing and even moving side-to-side, causing a feeling of mushiness.

IMO, a clutch pedal, a slave, and a master cylinder replacement is still way cheaper than a new clutch, so its worth looking at first.

 

[tottenham12712]

Heres what steps I used to fix my issues:

1) change and bleed fluid
2) replace slave
3) added a braided line (thought the heavier pressure plate might be causing some stretch in the rubber line)
4a) replaced master (this fixed my problem)
4b)replaced the pedal assembly as it was creaking

Start with that as its cheaper than doing a clutch, even if you need to do the clutch in the end you will have a brand new clutch system and it will feel amazing.

A tip for doing the master, before you curse and cut your hands up just loosen the brake booster from the firewall as much as you can. It gives you the extra room to get the master out.

 

[SlowCivicEx]

I had very similar issues to you, SlowCivicEX. Mine was getting rpogressively worse grinds in 1st and reverse, and pumping the clutch pedal a few times didn't help. (That was recommended by a mechanic friend as a way to test out the lazy slave).

The crack on my clutch pedal was NOT obvious and was hidden on the outboard side next to the bundles of wires from the fuse panel. A small bright LED pen flashlight and just the right angle made it visible. It wasn't able to be identified by feel as it was flat, but I think moved under pressure of the pedal/spring.

Adjusting the engagement point of the clutch pedal made 100% difference in the grinding in 1st and reverse. I raised the engagement point up from about 1/6th of the way off the floor, to about 2/3 the way up off the floor. That gave me confidence that I wasn't ruining any bearings or riding the clutch, and, I was still able to shift butter-smooth (after a few days of re-learning the engagament point LOL).

The new clutch pedal, adjusted properly, made a significant difference in the firmness of the clutch. Everything was super smooth afterwards, and the firmness was perfect. I think the bracket on the old clutch pedal, which was cracked, was flexing and even moving side-to-side, causing a feeling of mushiness.

IMO, a clutch pedal, a slave, and a master cylinder replacement is still way cheaper than a new clutch, so its worth looking at first.

Thanks for the info,


I'm going to look at the pedal a little more today, but I looked for a good 10 minutes to see if I could see a crack the other day.

Also, when you are adjusting the CMC, are you turning the knot clockwise, or counter clockwise?

Heres what steps I used to fix my issues:

1) change and bleed fluid
2) replace slave
3) added a braided line (thought the heavier pressure plate might be causing some stretch in the rubber line)
4a) replaced master (this fixed my problem)
4b)replaced the pedal assembly as it was creaking

Start with that as its cheaper than doing a clutch, even if you need to do the clutch in the end you will have a brand new clutch system and it will feel amazing.

A tip for doing the master, before you curse and cut your hands up just loosen the brake booster from the firewall as much as you can. It gives you the extra room to get the master out.

I have bleed the fluid, Replaced the slave today. Its still giving me the same problem. I'm starting to think its the Pressure plate...

Thanks for the advice!

 

[tottenham12712]

I have bleed the fluid, Replaced the slave today. Its still giving me the same problem. I'm starting to think its the Pressure plate...

Thanks for the advice!

When you shift does the engagement point change alot? The master in our cars seems quite fragile, have you replaced it yet?

 

[SlowCivicEx]

When you shift does the engagement point change alot? The master in our cars seems quite fragile, have you replaced it yet?

It doesn't change at all. Its always about 1/4in off the floor board. Sometimes its hard to put into gear then other times.

 

[tottenham12712]

It doesn't change at all. Its always about 1/4in off the floor board. Sometimes its hard to put into gear then other times.

Try to adjust the pedal. That sounds more like your bearing is bad or has dug into the pressure plate fingers. As per the image below thats what happens when a bearing starts to go bad, it digs into the plate which causes the clutch pedal to not have enough travel to fully disengage the clutch.

You might ask well than why is it more difficult sometimes but not all the time? Well thats because metal expands and contracts and these small tolerances change ever so slightly on the pressure plate and bearing, but remember you are using and lever to gain mechanical advantage. So a small change in tolerances on the plate, results in a large change in throw on the pedal.

Regardless I would change the master, its had thousands of actions over the 100k its been through and is definitely tired. Once you put a nice new and much stronger pressure plate on it will most likely break the old master, which could also cause you to have to ride a brand new clutch which you shouldnt need to do.

Hope that helps a bit!

 

[SlowCivicEx]

Thanks for the info once again. I'm getting a quote from a nice shop in the area as we speak. I will change the CMC before I take her in for the clutch job.

Im going to try and adjust the CMC one more time. What way should I turn this?

 

[curls]

I don't remember what direction I turned the rod, but if you get under there and start turning it, you'll see the pedal move up/out, or in/down. You want the pedal to come up/out a fair amount.

Disconnect the switch(es), and start turning the rod with needlenose pliers to get a better grip. I wouldn't suggest disconnecting the rod from the pedal with the cotter pin, because if you disconnect it you can't easily see the pedal moving (as it's now no longer attached LOL).

 

[SlowCivicEx]

I don't wanna sound stupid, but don't you have to discount the rod from the pedal inorder to spin it?

 

[tottenham12712]

Thanks for the info once again. I'm getting a quote from a nice shop in the area as we speak. I will change the CMC before I take her in for the clutch job.

Im going to try and adjust the CMC one more time. What way should I turn this?

Anytime!

Crap I forget which way to turn it. You want the rod to become longer, which will get the clutch to grab further off the floor. 1/4 is way to little, even my brand new clutch grabs a little higher.

 

[curls]

I don't wanna sound stupid, but don't you have to discount the rod from the pedal inorder to spin it?

Nope. Just crack the jam nuts loose, then twist the rod.

You may have to partially or fully remove the cruise control switch, and reinstall afterwards. I believe that was a 17mm wrench.

 

[SlowCivicEx]

Okay, I went out and did what ya'll just said and it worked for right now. I adjusted the pedal, and it's just a hair from touching the stop where the cruise sensor is.The pedal is now about 1/3-1/2 way when the clutch starts to engage...

Is this a band-ad fix, or will this solve my problem for a while?