Acura TSX Forum banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
offtheline07
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have been looking into Methanol Injection for our TSX. Has anyone done this? Are there any major benefits or drawbacks? I know its mostly for forced induction but I have seen some high compression NA cars using it.
 

·
, Moderator, Performance
Joined
·
2,513 Posts
I have been looking into Methanol Injection for our TSX. Has anyone done this? Are there any major benefits or drawbacks? I know its mostly for forced induction but I have seen some high compression NA cars using it.
IMO its worse then nitrous. Yeah it works, itll cool the intake charge and boost octane slightly. What I dont like is how shitty 90% of the kits on the market are.

Heres a situation... You're WOT at 6k with meth injecting, the pump fails, low level sensor doesnt work, etc. Now your at 7k WOT your ECU thinks its still spraying but your AFR just leaned out by 3 points, ECU tries to react in time but unless its a high end unit it probably cant.

Now dont get me wrong there are good kits out there but they are pretty expensive and at that point you'd be better off with nitrous.

I also know many people that run or have run meth in the past with zero issues, but there seems to be an overwhelming large number of failures with meth.

If you're NA and stock compression dont even bother, you would be better off switching to e85 and even then Id be surprised if you saw more than 20hp peak.


TL;DR IMO its not worth it, especially for moderate compression NA. (a stock k24 10:1, 11:1 is no longer considered "high" compression these days)
 

·
, Moderator, Performance
Joined
·
2,513 Posts
I'm considering it as well on my supercharged setup. Almost pulled the trigger last week on an aem kit!
A meth kit with a supercharger makes more sense, especially the screw type. They generate a TON of heat.

The AEM kit is alright, IMO 1 gallon is too small though.
 

·
Triple Platinum Member
Joined
·
596 Posts
IMO its worse then nitrous. Yeah it works, itll cool the intake charge and add oxygen. What I dont like is how shitty 90% of the kits on the market are.

Heres a situation... You're WOT at 6k with meth injecting, the pump fails, low level sensor doesnt work, etc. Now your at 7k WOT your ECU thinks its still spraying but your AFR just leaned out by 3 points, ECU tries to react in time but unless its a high end unit it probably cant.

Now dont get me wrong there are good kits out there but they are pretty expensive and at that point you'd be better off with nitrous.

I also know many people that run or have run meth in the past with zero issues, but there seems to be an overwhelming large number of failures with meth.

If you're NA and stock compression dont even bother, you would be better off switching to e85 and even then Id be surprised if you saw more than 20hp peak.


TL;DR IMO its not worth it, especially for moderate compression NA. (a stock k24 10:1, 11:1 is no longer considered "high" compression these days)
In the situation you described, are you forcing your ECU to run in closed loop under WOT?
 

·
, Moderator, Performance
Joined
·
2,513 Posts
In the situation you described, are you forcing your ECU to run in closed loop under WOT?
So most ECUs will run open loop at WOT by default. But they will also still monitor AFR for things like lean cut. Some can also adjust fueling while in WOT based on current conditions (kind of a hybrid closed/open loop).

Something simple like a kpro or flashpro will monitor AFR for lean cut purposes. If you ran out of liquid or the pump cut out mid pull those ecus wont react fast enough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
231 Posts
My brother and I experimented with alcohol injection/water injection on his Grand National back in the late 80's to early 90's. Any injection is a band-aid for poor fuel delivery. We used it because the duty cycle of the injectors was maxed, and were still running lean with larger fuel pump, race gas and 22Lbs boost.
Now a days, you can increase the injector size, tune with flashpro to get enough fuel into the engine to prevent detonation. If you keep your a/f ratio with fuel, rather than water or alcohol you can increase boost, without retarding timing because of detonation.

Waste of time and money and if it fails at WOT car may not be able to react fast enough to prevent engine failure.

We used to monitor exhaust gas temp to see if car was running lean as a second indicator. if you run too hot of EGTs, you're running lean and thats not good.

just my .02
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
231 Posts
IMO its worse then nitrous. Yeah it works, itll cool the intake charge and add oxygen. What I dont like is how shitty 90% of the kits on the market are.

Heres a situation... You're WOT at 6k with meth injecting, the pump fails, low level sensor doesnt work, etc. Now your at 7k WOT your ECU thinks its still spraying but your AFR just leaned out by 3 points, ECU tries to react in time but unless its a high end unit it probably cant.

Now dont get me wrong there are good kits out there but they are pretty expensive and at that point you'd be better off with nitrous.

I also know many people that run or have run meth in the past with zero issues, but there seems to be an overwhelming large number of failures with meth.

If you're NA and stock compression dont even bother, you would be better off switching to e85 and even then Id be surprised if you saw more than 20hp peak.


TL;DR IMO its not worth it, especially for moderate compression NA. (a stock k24 10:1, 11:1 is no longer considered "high" compression these days)

I will have to disagree that methanol adds oxygen, that is why we use Nitrous. It is easy to break apart the n20 molecule to break off the "O", this adds in the combustion process.

Methanol is basically Alcohol which burns itself, as opposed to the nitrous.

methanol allows us to run a cooler charge in the combustion chamber, but does not aid in the actual combustion like n20.
 

·
My car whines...alot
Joined
·
809 Posts
Interesting...I must still be the only TSX guy to run water/methanol injection?

To the OP, not many guys run strictly methanol on street-driven cars. What is more common to see are setups using a combination of water and methanol.

To clarify things, water has a much higher specific heat capacity than methanol (i.e. can absorb more heat before converting states) so it functions predominately as the cooling agent in most setups, not methanol.

Methanol acts more of as an octane booster. Depending on the volume sprayed into the system (either pre-manifold or directly into the combustion chamber), methanol would be the equivalent of running 100+ octane (race) fuel. Running a higher octane helps to prevent detonation/pre-ignition issues in high heat, high pressure situations.

I will respectfully disagree with those who said water/methanol is a band-aid and dangerous. I ran a Snow Performance water/methanol kit on my supercharged car for 5 years without an issue. Not only did a 51/49 mix of water/methanol allow me to make more power (tuned to advance ignition timing a few extra degrees in the mid RPMs, gained an extra 15whp), it also worked well as a chemical intercooler and reduced heatsoak, especially in the summer months. My car was running at a consistent 350whp/267wtq on a stock block for several years before I sold it.

However, for the OP I will say that running water/methanol injection on a NA K24 engine without tuning for it will be pretty much useless. In fact, it will more than likely rob you of power as you will be running considerably richer than stock.

For reference, here's my thread when I first had the water/meth kit installed:
http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/1st-gen-image-gallery/29316-phase-2-part-1-just-few-pics.html
 

·
, Moderator, Performance
Joined
·
2,513 Posts
I will have to disagree that methanol adds oxygen, that is why we use Nitrous. It is easy to break apart the n20 molecule to break off the "O", this adds in the combustion process.

Methanol is basically Alcohol which burns itself, as opposed to the nitrous.

methanol allows us to run a cooler charge in the combustion chamber, but does not aid in the actual combustion like n20.
Yep your right, I have no idea why I wrote it that way. Ill edit it.

Regardless Water/meth injection does aid in combustion just not as directly like N2O does.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top