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, Chief SuperModerator, Info Center / Car Care & D
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Good lord that was great. I read every word.
 

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That so wants me to SC it at 100K
 

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My car whines...alot
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Sorry to sound arrogant, but this topic isn't new since I already did all the stuff discussed in the article (and with pretty much all the same components) almost 2 1/2 years ago! No need to "stay tuned" either since I've taken it to the next step with an LSD, water/meth injection, and an aftercooler.

I feel like Rodney Dangerfield right now :tardsmash...
 

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This is the reason Im building a turbo motor.... That SC is such a waste of money, even if you wanted to bolt the bigger M92 to it you would need Meth and an after cooler etc. and your already looking at close to 7-10k to do it right. I doubt youll break 400 at the wheels anyway.
 

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, Chief SuperModerator, Info Center / Car Care & D
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This is the reason Im building a turbo motor.... That SC is such a waste of money, even if you wanted to bolt the bigger M92 to it you would need Meth and an after cooler etc. and your already looking at close to 7-10k to do it right. I doubt youll break 400 at the wheels anyway.
The question I have is, how much HP can our stock internals (rods, springs, pistons, etc) take?

I am totally going through assumptions here so don't quote me as fact, but a member on here, BigBen, was the first to pull 500HP with his turbo set up and he had all sorts of problems with his engine.
 

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This is the reason Im building a turbo motor.... That SC is such a waste of money, even if you wanted to bolt the bigger M92 to it you would need Meth and an after cooler etc. and your already looking at close to 7-10k to do it right. I doubt youll break 400 at the wheels anyway.
Why is a SC a waste of money? This is what I am trying to work on at 100K. Doesn't flashpro change much of what the SC numbers could post before or how it feels?
 

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This is the reason Im building a turbo motor.... That SC is such a waste of money, even if you wanted to bolt the bigger M92 to it you would need Meth and an after cooler etc. and your already looking at close to 7-10k to do it right. I doubt youll break 400 at the wheels anyway.
well with a rotrex people make big number, idk what you are talking about. no power curve like a fast spooling turbo but still. you can easy hit 400whp and high with a nice rotrex setup.

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=94793
 

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Why is a SC a waste of money? This is what I am trying to work on at 100K. Doesn't flashpro change much of what the SC numbers could post before or how it feels?
a roots type supercharger will be a waste without an aftercooler. at some point you're going to increase the boost and it's not going to make any more power since the air being forced into the motor is so hot. at moderate boost levels you'll still see gains but you'll have trouble at higher boost levels without an aftercooler.
well with a rotrex people make big number, idk what you are talking about. no power curve like a fast spooling turbo but still. you can easy hit 400whp and high with a nice rotrex setup.
that's a completely different type of supercharger. it's much more efficient hence the better results versus a roots type on a k-series. for starters, the rotrex kit comes with an intercooler. that alone gives it an advantage over the off the shelf roots type systems that do not come with an aftercooler.
 

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a roots type supercharger will be a waste without an aftercooler. at some point you're going to increase the boost and it's not going to make any more power since the air being forced into the motor is so hot. at moderate boost levels you'll still see gains but you'll have trouble at higher boost levels without an aftercooler.


that's a completely different type of supercharger. it's much more efficient hence the better results versus a roots type on a k-series. for starters, the rotrex kit comes with an intercooler. that alone gives it an advantage over the off the shelf roots type systems that do not come with an aftercooler.
I understand. but you can pick up rotrex kits from $2500-$4500 and no need on building these motors. it has be proven that people can make 400whp in a stock block. and then the rest is cake. not much needed to spend after the kit. nice header if you don't already have. injectors, tuning(kpro/flashpro) and all other stuff that you would need for doing a turbo setup anyways. its cheap and more efficient. Also less maintenance. I had a rotrex kit on my e36 for over two years daily driven never an issue. And i beat that car up every day. Also had a fully built(ross pistons/cp rods/A1 studs/JNZ trans ect) 1g Talon making 470whp and nothing but headaches. rotrex are the best bang out there.
 

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My car whines...alot
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This is the reason Im building a turbo motor.... That SC is such a waste of money, even if you wanted to bolt the bigger M92 to it you would need Meth and an after cooler etc. and your already looking at close to 7-10k to do
it right. I doubt youll break 400 at the wheels anyway.

well with a rotrex people make big number, idk what you are talking about. no power curve like a fast spooling turbo but still. you can easy hit 400whp and high with a nice rotrex setup.

Post Your Supercharger or Rotrex Setups!!! - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum


The M62 may not give you the highest peak output or be the cheapest option, but it's certainly not a waste of money. I'm actually quite happy with my current output (350whp/267wtq). I completely respect the power you can extract from a turbo or centrifugal blower, but in terms of driveability it's hard to beat the flat torque curve of a lag-free Roots-type blower.

However, I'm also quite certain that I've reached its limits (see here for details). Between a 3.0" blower pulley and a larger diameter crank pulley, I'm spinning the blower to over 16k RPMs at redline (7600 RPM). At that point, you not only have to worry about peak efficiency, you also have to consider durability. I confirmed with an engineer at Eaton that the internals of the blower (impellers, bearings, etc) aren't designed to be pushed beyond that speed.

IMO, 400whp on any M62 set up with the K24 is simply not possible without nitrous. However, unless you're looking to build a 1320 monster, I think anything over 400whp in a FWD platform is superfluous.
 

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....its fate....
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^ yeah I agree. Its outright scary with that much power to the front.
I've been in a turbo ep3 and it was so powerful to the point of scary on the road. If you intend to take the car to the drags then I can understand. But for a daily, I think a meaty torque curve and smoothe power delivery would be ideal.
Everyone is after different goals.

If anyone is interested turbo, look into rotrex as mentioned earlier. I thinks TTS makes a kit for the K motors to retain AC and power steering.
 

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The M62 may not give you the highest peak output or be the cheapest option, but it's certainly not a waste of money. I'm actually quite happy with my current output (350whp/267wtq). I completely respect the power you can extract from a turbo or centrifugal blower, but in terms of driveability it's hard to beat the flat torque curve of a lag-free Roots-type blower.

However, I'm also quite certain that I've reached its limits (see here for details). Between a 3.0" blower pulley and a larger diameter crank pulley, I'm spinning the blower to over 16k RPMs at redline (7600 RPM). At that point, you not only have to worry about peak efficiency, you also have to consider durability. I confirmed with an engineer at Eaton that the internals of the blower (impellers, bearings, etc) aren't designed to be pushed beyond that speed.

IMO, 400whp on any M62 set up with the K24 is simply not possible without nitrous. However, unless you're looking to build a 1320 monster, I think anything over 400whp in a FWD platform is superfluous.
Not knocking your build sorry if I came off that way as it is a very well done project. Im going to say youve probably spent about 7-10k on that build in total. And youve only gained about 140whp from a basic bolton k24. Thats a waste IMO.

I bought a ERL k24a2 Darton sleeved block with CP pistons 10:1 comp and manley pro rods as well as a fully CNC machined k20a2 head with DragCartel 2.2 cams (built by Drag cartel). With this motor alone im already around 300whp and $9k. Im bolting a 35r or 40r too it will most likely have a max boost set at 25-30 psi giving me about 700-800 at the wheels(turbo kit is around 6k). So in the end I have more than double the power for just a few grand extra.

Granted alot of drivetrain work needs to be done but it gets my point across, if someone wants the power your better off just building an NA stroker block for the same price, or a low boost motor(turbo or rotex).

The question I have is, how much HP can our stock internals (rods, springs, pistons, etc) take?

I am totally going through assumptions here so don't quote me as fact, but a member on here, BigBen, was the first to pull 500HP with his turbo set up and he had all sorts of problems with his engine.
Stock rods are the weak point here, but there have been people pushing 500-600 at the wheels. But they let go pretty quickly.

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55035

EDIT: Theres not much difference in having 500+ at the front or the back, the cars do handle differently but its not anymore or less scary. Ive had a few big V8s from working with my dads cars as well as his friends, I personally like the challenge of squeezing the power out of the smaller 4 cyls. Just because you have 500+ doesnt mean you need to use it everytime you step on the gas ;)
 

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I am not sure I quite understand what is one to do with 3-4-5-6-7-800 whp in a TSX. You guys throw these numbers around like 300whp is nothing, 600 or go home...

If these are gutted drag cars running 10 psi in their tires, with dog gearboxes I still don't get it. Why in TSX? Put that motor in something lighter, smaller.
Are we talking daily driven cars here? If so, I really don't get that. What's the point? These cars REALLY struggle to hook up with anything over 250whp and even there you have to know what you are doing and pay close attention. Even if you resolve traction issues (in dry), car becomes too much for the street, again I see no point. LSD doesn't change things much at all, if you have enough power it will spin tires just fine LSD or no LSD.

Rain, snow (if you get that) and car is useless. Bills are huge, thing runs like shit (other than WOT), smells bad, burns ton of gas and has a mind of it's own.
I've been there, done that (not in TSX), but point is the same.

If one takes these points as somewhat valid, CT supercharger is amazing bargain. Keeps the car engine very civilized, gives enough power to have fun (never enough?), car can take it and remain nice as delivered by Acura. Almost stock, with more power. This is quite something.

All I am saying here, power is only part of the picture, one has to consider everything. GTR is not fast car because of the engine alone, anyone can get 500whp even in 4cyl, no challenge there. GTR puts the power down INSANELY well and shifts gears like there is no gears and does this day after day because it is built for that. TSX is not.
Now, I admit that these projects are amazing and lot of fun, I'll also admit that people can do amazing things, but I'll also admit, once done, saying "what did I need this for???"

Nino
 

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, Chief SuperModerator, Info Center / Car Care & D
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I agree with some of the points you brought up. Like you said it's not sensible to create such high HP car for the situation some might use it in. But lately it has been exciting stuff for this community because we haven't been able to be presented with high HP results to the masses.

This is because we lacked the ability to control the ECU and thus only a few were able to extract high numbers with custom work. I guess with this new flux of options, people are trying to do what they can first; and that is to see how much power they can extract.

It's a new venture for us TSX's really.
 

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I am not sure I quite understand what is one to do with 3-4-5-6-7-800 whp in a TSX. You guys throw these numbers around like 300whp is nothing, 600 or go home...

If these are gutted drag cars running 10 psi in their tires, with dog gearboxes I still don't get it. Why in TSX? Put that motor in something lighter, smaller.
Are we talking daily driven cars here? If so, I really don't get that. What's the point? These cars REALLY struggle to hook up with anything over 250whp and even there you have to know what you are doing and pay close attention. Even if you resolve traction issues (in dry), car becomes too much for the street, again I see no point. LSD doesn't change things much at all, if you have enough power it will spin tires just fine LSD or no LSD.

Rain, snow (if you get that) and car is useless. Bills are huge, thing runs like shit (other than WOT), smells bad, burns ton of gas and has a mind of it's own.
I've been there, done that (not in TSX), but point is the same.

If one takes these points as somewhat valid, CT supercharger is amazing bargain. Keeps the car engine very civilized, gives enough power to have fun (never enough?), car can take it and remain nice as delivered by Acura. Almost stock, with more power. This is quite something.

All I am saying here, power is only part of the picture, one has to consider everything. GTR is not fast car because of the engine alone, anyone can get 500whp even in 4cyl, no challenge there. GTR puts the power down INSANELY well and shifts gears like there is no gears and does this day after day because it is built for that. TSX is not.
Now, I admit that these projects are amazing and lot of fun, I'll also admit that people can do amazing things, but I'll also admit, once done, saying "what did I need this for???"

Nino
True wisdom. Now here is someone who understands the difference between senseless lust for power vs. true, tasteful engineering and modification.
 
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