[Christof]

Hi everybody, 2 years ago when I got my 100% stock 06 CL9, I bring it to did the Dyno tune (no hardware mod.)
In that tuning, gained 9whp.
Recently, I began to do some hardware mod, I added a CAI, race Header and FLP Metal Cat, keep the stock exhaust.
I absolute feel the different especially the header.
Is it necessary to have Dyno tuning again?? or it's only waste money to gain maybe few hp?

 

[_Sam]

I probably would go get it tuned.

 

[Christof]

I probably would go get it tuned.

It's what I wanna to do, but just worry it won't gain any more as I already had the Dyno tune before

 

[_Sam]

What tuning software is the ECU running off? It should realize some gains.

 

[Litespeed08]

Off the top of my head, additional gains will primarily be coming from your pre-engine mods (CAI) which means tuning your fuel for the proper Air Fuel Mixture (AFM). So unless you do more engine/ignition/fuel based mods you'll won't see more drastic changes. You'll see an improvement over what you have now but it probably won't be more than what you've already gained.

I have limited experience but no where near what some of the very experienced folks here have so take what I say with a grain of salt, it's an opinion with some experience. Maybe someone with deeper experience can share their knowledge.

 

[Christof]

What tuning software is the ECU running off? It should realize some gains.

Actually, I don't know what software it run, only know it's Dyno-tune by Dynopack

 

[Christof]

Off the top of my head, additional gains will primarily be coming from your pre-engine mods (CAI) which means tuning your fuel for the proper Air Fuel Mixture (AFM). So unless you do more engine/ignition/fuel based mods you'll won't see more drastic changes. You'll see an improvement over what you have now but it probably won't be more than what you've already gained.

I have limited experience but no where near what some of the very experienced folks here have so take what I say with a grain of salt, it's an opinion with some experience. Maybe someone with deeper experience can share their knowledge.

Dyno-tune again will cost me $700, if finally only get maybe 3-5 hp more, it's seems not a good deal.

 

[phen8tk]

Dyno-tune again will cost me $700, if finally only get maybe 3-5 hp more, it's seems not a good deal.

For your 06, are you certain you have a custom dyno tune and not a reflash? You would need to swap to an 07-08 ECU to do a custom dyno tune and you mentioned having a "100% stock" TSX. If you didn't change your ECU, I suspect you got a reflash and not a custom dyno tune.

Btw most reflashes for the TSX are generic off the shelf tunes that accounts normal I/H/E mods.

 

[Christof]

Actually, my car is JDM Accord CL9, which imported from Japan, and it's the first Batch facelift Accord Type-S.
The JDM CL9 equip with the same K24A2 as TSX. But, somebody said JDM CL9 didn't change anything on K24A2, not like TSX. I don't sure is there any different in the ECU between pre-facelift and facelift. The only thing I know, my local tuner only offer custom Dyno tune for all JDM motor just like EK4, DC2, CL7R, CL9, FD2

 

[_Sam]

It could be some copy of Littlebo's tune, I guess, which didn't require a facelifted ECU.

Only thing I would check is to make sure you aren't running too lean. As long as it isn't, I'd leave it alone.

 

[phen8tk]

Actually, my car is JDM Accord CL9, which imported from Japan, and it's the first Batch facelift Accord Type-S.
The JDM CL9 equip with the same K24A2 as TSX. But, somebody said JDM CL9 didn't change anything on K24A2, not like TSX. I don't sure is there any different in the ECU between pre-facelift and facelift. The only thing I know, my local tuner only offer custom Dyno tune for all JDM motor just like EK4, DC2, CL7R, CL9, FD2

Do you have a Hondata Flashpro or scan tool that can do live monitoring? Do some data logging to check the AFR and knock count are in check during WOT. You can also check the short term and long term fuel trims during a 20-30 minute cruise to confirm that it’s not dumping too much fuel to compensate for your mods. Doing that will give you a good indicator that you engine is not running too lean.

 

[Christof]

Another CL7R owner just tell me the tuning shop using K-Tag ECU tool, it seems lot of local tuner using it to remap many Europe Turbo Car.
I find some previous photos about my last Dyno tune.

100% CL9, only had a K&N filter

One of my friend told me they input the wrong ration, AT CL9 should be around 4.9 running at 3 rd gear, it would
affect the measured output

The AFR seems a little bit lean

 

[Christof]

Do you have a Hondata Flashpro or scan tool that can do live monitoring? Do some data logging to check the AFR and knock count are in check during WOT. You can also check the short term and long term fuel trims during a 20-30 minute cruise to confirm that it’s not dumping too much fuel to compensate for your mods. Doing that will give you a good indicator that you engine is not running too lean.

Do you have a Hondata Flashpro or scan tool that can do live monitoring? Do some data logging to check the AFR and knock count are in check during WOT. You can also check the short term and long term fuel trims during a 20-30 minute cruise to confirm that it’s not dumping too much fuel to compensate for your mods. Doing that will give you a good indicator that you engine is not running too lean.

I don't have Hondata Flashpro, but I have a OBDII reader which can read rev, volt, water temp, intake temp.........so many data but not AFC

 

[phen8tk]

I don't have Hondata Flashpro, but I have a OBDII reader which can read rev, volt, water temp, intake temp.........so many data but not AFC

I agree, the AFR from that graph is lean especially at around 5300 RPMs. Ideally AFR should be between high 12’s to low 13’s with a much flatter curve during WOT.

If your scan tool doesn’t have a way to monitor the fuel trims, either get one that does or ask the tuner if he thinks a retune is necessary. Based on that AFR graph, I would do the retune for peace of mind. Check if they offer a reduced price for retuning a car that they already tuned in the past. Many tuners offer that.

Btw, if you end up with a good scan tool, here’s a very good video to learn about fuel trim and live data monitoring. A bit long, but very informative.

 

[Christof]

I agree, the AFR from that graph is lean especially at around 5300 RPMs. Ideally AFR should be between high 12’s to low 13’s with a much flatter curve during WOT.

If your scan tool doesn’t have a way to monitor the fuel trims, either get one that does or ask the tuner if he thinks a retune is necessary. Based on that AFR graph, I would do the retune for peace of mind. Check if they offer a reduced price for retuning a car that they already tuned in the past. Many tuners offer that.

Btw, if you end up with a good scan tool, here’s a very good video to learn about fuel trim and live data monitoring. A bit long, but very informative.

Thank you man, I think I should go back to the shop and discuss about the AFC too lean.But,I just guess he would sell me to do a custom tune again😬

 

[Christof]

Ah, one more thing, my city only can buy 98 octane fuel, not 95 or 92 fuel .
will it be a factor of why the tuner allow such lean AFC?

 

[phen8tk]

Ah, one more thing, my city only can buy 98 octane fuel, not 95 or 92 fuel .
will it be a factor of why the tuner allow such lean AFC?

The higher octane has nothing to do with the lean AFR. However, you need to confirm with your tuner to see what fuel octane the car was tuned with and stick with that. You can always go higher octane, but you don't want to use a lower octane rating for tuned cars.

 

[voiddweller]

Is it necessary to have Dyno tuning again?? or it's only waste money to gain maybe few hp?

Necessary?

Usually not with your mods.

Should you do it?

It's a good idea to be 100% safe.

Most tuners from my personal experience provided a dyno discount or a courtesy scan to see if a re-tune is needed.

The last dyno tune I purchased was for my S14 (about three years ago) and it cost $400 for the initial tune and $175 for subsequent re-tunes that required a dyno rental.

 

[Christof]

Today, finally success to read the Air/fuel ratio through the OBDII. I use the iPhone app " DashCommand" to log the AF ration. It almost all the time keeping 14.x while in normal driving.It only go rich in high throttle input.I put full throttle in 2nd gear (AT) to get a log from 3000rpm to red line.

Compare it with the previous Air/fuel ration graph, it's slightly richer than before.
It's the opposite of what I think .
I always thought adding a CAI, race Header and FLP Metal Cat will make it lean

 

[Christof]

Necessary?

Usually not with your mods.

Should you do it?

It's a good idea to be 100% safe.

Most tuners from my personal experience provided a dyno discount or a courtesy scan to see if a re-tune is needed.

The last dyno tune I purchased was for my S14 (about three years ago) and it cost $400 for the initial tune and $175 for subsequent re-tunes that required a dyno rental.

That tuning shop I went to has closed. I have asked another tuner, it cost $1000 for a custom dyno tune......