A few things I have learned over the years, especially dealing on here:
1- If you make something that you like, you will get buyers like you. But if you are rare of breed it turns into small or excessively time consuming and low profit business.
2- Opinions are like belly buttons. Everyone has one. Some are in, some are out. All matter at some point or another. Most or all are completely useless for anything other than collecting lint.
3- People buy based on value and referral. If you have a beat on customer's values, you can own markets. A taller shifter will perform better, guaranteed. If customers value a shorter shifter for it's feel (usually it is looks, though) then that is the way to go.
I have never tried a longer shifter, I have heard great things about them but i personally think it looks like shit, lol.. I love the look/ feel that ive had in the past from shorter shifters.
I'd be interested in a longer shifter for track days. Buddy of mine had a rat rod with a ridiculously tall shifter, looked stupid as hell but it worked nice.
I've tried to understand Marcus's posts & his website info on longer shifter handles, but I'm still not sure I understand it.
In the Mustang world, plus in every car that I've ever seen on a road race course always has a shorter shifter. The only time I've ever seen a longer shifter is in a "stock car" (Nascar type stock car that races on ovals) where they don't shift gears much & in a drifting type cars where they don't shift too much either, more concerned with the levers for the rear brakes.
It is personal preference so there is no right or absolute answer.
IMO, your intial design of the shifter lever is right on the money & I encourage you to carry on... :thumbsup:
I have never tried a longer shifter, I have heard great things about them but i personally think it looks like shit, lol.. I love the look/ feel that ive had in the past from shorter shifters.
The Fastline Shifter is a game changer for most performance drivers. It does take a little bit of a leap of faith though. Understand, I am not thinking that the TSX needs or should have a shifter nearly as tall. But certinaly going shorter than stock is moving in the wrong direction. It, too, is a design based almost purely on looks and is not as functional as one would make it out to be.
I've tried to understand Marcus's posts & his website info on longer shifter handles, but I'm still not sure I understand it.
In the Mustang world, plus in every car that I've ever seen on a road race course always has a shorter shifter. The only time I've ever seen a longer shifter is in a "stock car" (Nascar type stock car that races on ovals) where they don't shift gears much & in a drifting type cars where they don't shift too much either, more concerned with the levers for the rear brakes.
It is personal preference so there is no right or absolute answer.
IMO, your intial design of the shifter lever is right on the money & I encourage you to carry on... :thumbsup:
I could keep going but the point is, it is always better and faster for shifting to get the knob as close to the wheel as possible. Now, these are all racing cars and I don't think the TSX should be anywhere near as long. That being said, getting the shifter higher will make the reach closer and allow you to keep your hands on the wheel more. It is for faster shifting and for more car control ability.
On the mustang I think the shifter gets shorter because the throw is too long for sure, and the best way to shorten it seems to be by reducing the height of the knob. While this is true for a Mustang, which has somewhat of a booty shifter to being with, it isn't a blanket truth. Shortening the knob has an added benefit with a compromise of father reach. More serious drivers will choose to take a compromise in looks over function, than that is what the Fastline part does.
Frankly, I don't know for sure that the TSX knob really needs to go up or down at all...I kinda like it with a short shifter, heavy knob, and cable bushings...
I see what you're saying but just to be pedantic, the lever in the center on Ken's car is the rear brake (e-brake). You can even see the hydraulic lines. Also, that picture of the WRC focus seems old because they are using paddles today with a giant lever in the center like Ken's car for the rear brake.
Well Marcus I totally disagree with you. Tall shifters are a waste of time!!! I can make a tall one just for you to enjoy, but man you are sure trying to sell the tall shifter idea. I know my car better than you do. I have driven it for 125K now and I definitely dont want my shifter any higher. Making me raise my elbow and causing me discomfort in long drives and cruising to work. The shifter height is fine stock but its can be 3/4" shorter for better feel. No one in here will want a 3 foot shifter in their car, it's just fact!!!!!!
I have owned/raced every B-series and H-series swap in the book along with all the different chassis. A shorter shifter if one of the first things I did. It makes the car feel better and the shifting better, it's just fact. I'm not going to make 3 foot clown shifters just cause Joe Shmow runs it in in his all out race car. Lets face it most people want a slightly shorter shifter, if you feel differently then the door is open for you to pursue the 3 foot shifter you always wanted.
I agree with AWOC. The first thing I did was installed the Mugen SS because I felt the factory shifter was too tall and put unnecessary pressure on my elbow up into my shoulder. The (slight) drop in knob height took all pressure off my elbow and put my right arm in more of a relaxed position that is MUCH more comfortable. This was my favorite modification of them all. I NEVER fell like I am reaching for the shifter and because it is shorter, I don't have to move my arm very much to switch gears. There was NO increase in shifting effort either.
Well Marcus I totally disagree with you. Tall shifters are a waste of time!!! I can make a tall one just for you to enjoy, but man you are sure trying to sell the tall shifter idea. I know my car better than you do. I have driven it for 125K now and I definitely dont want my shifter any higher. Making me raise my elbow and causing me discomfort in long drives and cruising to work. The shifter height is fine stock but its can be 3/4" shorter for better feel. No one in here will want a 3 foot shifter in their car, it's just fact!!!!!!
IMO, its whatever you're comfortable with. But, I recently put a taller shift knob on mine and found that raising it about an inch puts my arm parallel with the arm rest. I found this to be extremely comfortable. Just my $.02
Oh...so what you are saying is, that the shifters should be as close to the wheel as possible, and when in a rally car it is best to move the eb-brake closer as well? I see how my comparison is not literal and direct, but you can see how the concept of a taller shifter is truly and completely verified by the example anyway.
Sorry on the plate frame, we didn't ship the visors direct. If you email us we'll send one if you want tho
Well Marcus I totally disagree with you. Tall shifters are a waste of time!!! I can make a tall one just for you to enjoy, but man you are sure trying to sell the tall shifter idea. I know my car better than you do. I have driven it for 125K now and I definitely dont want my shifter any higher. Making me raise my elbow and causing me discomfort in long drives and cruising to work. The shifter height is fine stock but its can be 3/4" shorter for better feel. No one in here will want a 3 foot shifter in their car, it's just fact!!!!!!
I have owned/raced every B-series and H-series swap in the book along with all the different chassis. A shorter shifter if one of the first things I did. It makes the car feel better and the shifting better, it's just fact. I'm not going to make 3 foot clown shifters just cause Joe Shmow runs it in in his all out race car. Lets face it most people want a slightly shorter shifter, if you feel differently then the door is open for you to pursue the 3 foot shifter you always wanted.
Honestly, the logic loses me a bit though...long drives on the freeway typically don't involve much shifting. Hell, even in traffic I don't row around much...maybe you should keep your hands on the wheel and you won't have problems with your arm falling asleep. Or better yet, buy an auto!
The whole 3 foot thing is making me think that you really do have different motives here. Yes most people want a slightly shorter shifter. And then again, most people don't know a whole hell of a lot about driving and car control either. Sure, you can have your opinion on the shifter...but please don't degrade mine. I've got more than enough experience selling "3 foot shifters" to know exactly what I am talking about. In fact I am just shot off a PO for more Fastline Civic/Integra shifters. I only sell about 200 a year. That's a lotta Joe's...and no they mostly are not going into all out race cars.
Frankly, with this post, I have lost a bit of respect for you. Technically you really seem to be plugged into the engineering. But this sort of exaggeration is pretty unnecessary. I have tried to be as supportive as possible and gave my opinions. You are welcome to do whatever you like man, but you don't have to whip out the sarcasm. Maybe you missed the point of this post...
mrheeltoe said:
A few things I have learned over the years, especially dealing on here:
1- If you make something that you like, you will get buyers like you. But if you are rare of breed it turns into small or excessively time consuming and low profit business.
2- Opinions are like belly buttons. Everyone has one. Some are in, some are out. All matter at some point or another. Most or all are completely useless for anything other than collecting lint.
3- People buy based on value and referral. If you have a beat on customer's values, you can own markets. A taller shifter will perform better, guaranteed. If customers value a shorter shifter for it's feel (usually it is looks, though) then that is the way to go.
You don't seem to dispute the performance aspect of the taller shifter if your main gripe here is calming discomfort. Do whatever you want man. I am sure you will have a decent product to offer if you believe in it and the customers are on board with you. I never noticed that a TSX was an uncomfortable car to drive in any aspect. Maybe I am the weird one. No matter that, though. Just keep it cool.
I agree with AWOC. The first thing I did was installed the Mugen SS because I felt the factory shifter was too tall and put unnecessary pressure on my elbow up into my shoulder. The (slight) drop in knob height took all pressure off my elbow and put my right arm in more of a relaxed position that is MUCH more comfortable. This was my favorite modification of them all. I NEVER fell like I am reaching for the shifter and because it is shorter, I don't have to move my arm very much to switch gears. There was NO increase in shifting effort either.
Yeah, you guys completely are missing my point then. You are thinking of grabbing the shifter while your elbow is on the armrest. I am thinking of a shifter that is being grabbed from the 3 o'clock position on the steering wheel. You know, where it should pretty much stay most of the time.
It all comes down to priorities, I guess. One works better for driving, the other works better for being mellow. I, myself, am more of a driver and would prefer my shifter to work great while I am driving the wheels off my car. If you don't do that sort of driving, you will never appreciate the short reach off the wheel a longer shifter will provide.
PS, I commute in my car as well, and would think that something that makes the car perform better when I am having fun is well worth some compromise when my mind is shut off.
I definitely understand where heeltoe is coming from. When it comes to motorsports or spirited driving, both of your hands SHOULD be on the wheel and should be off only during shifting which is where the higher shift knob would come into play for more quicker action. Many enthusiastic drivers chuckle at home videos of people driving with one hand on the shifter the whole time. I do understand it may not be necessary for the average consumer.
I'm not trying to side with one person over the other, I'm just saying there is a reason for the preference for both types of shifter lengths.
So we have a CT short shifter and a mugen short shifter, Im sure both shorten the shaft and the throw length but, what I would like to see is a slightly longer shaft (1 to 1.5 inches) with a relatively short throw, about 50-65% less travel.
Oh...so what you are saying is, that the shifters should be as close to the wheel as possible, and when in a rally car it is best to move the eb-brake closer as well? I see how my comparison is not literal and direct, but you can see how the concept of a taller shifter is truly and completely verified by the example anyway.
Sorry on the plate frame, we didn't ship the visors direct. If you email us we'll send one if you want tho
I'm not in on the debate here, but the e-brake in his fiesta is designed that way for 2 purposes. First easier access, but only because of the paddle setup; with the standard center-mount manual setup this would be in the way. Second reason is that the longer lever provides much more precise braking application force for the rediculous driving he demonstrates in his videos.
Either way, that's one bad Fiesta! :ben:
Cool, so just email support and you guys will send one out?
Yes Marcus, this sure has turned into a like this shifter better than this one debate so you're wrong and Im right. I agree. no need for it.
Length is not an issue at all. I can make the shifter as tall or as short as people want, and it will not effect prices. Its just a matter of telling the CNC where to stop.
First prototype coming next week . Pix to follow....
It is something where you have to actually try to understand and feel the benefits of.
I had a short shifter in it before the fastline one and for fast roadi can say teh fastline one was much better at the job! The shifting is not as short as a typical short shift but the time it takes fot my left hand to reach for the knob and shift gear and back to the wheel more than makes up for it!
The civic was my daily drive and i have done 6hr drive trips in it, and i can tell you it doesnt give you arm any discomfort.
Both types of shifters has there advantage. just depends on what your after.
It's finally available! After years of getting super jelly of the RSX and Civic guys with this we finally get some (bolt) action.
https://www.hybrid-racing.com/products/hybrid-racing-short-shifter-assembly-04-08-acura-tsx-tl-accord
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