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Experience: My academic research is focused on racial disparities and program evaluation in health, mental health, child welfare, and largely juvenile justice. I just finished a thesis "Cultural and linguistic appropriateness in juvenile justice".

Just ran into this incredible news story about a man's "right" to observe a "suspicious" -string of expletives- [African American] young man, hunt down, and finally kill him. Legal result? - Acquittal on grounds of self-defense.

How did this happen? How is it okay for a man to conceal a weapon behind is back in his waistband, stalk someone, and then use the weapon in "self defense", all while the "suspicious" person has not committed any crimes other than strolling, chatting on the phone - Oh, and of course - walking while Black.
 

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Two short NY Times Articles:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/16/opinion/the-truth-about-trayvon.html?src=recpb&_r=1&

The Truth About Trayvon
By EKOW N. YANKAH
Published: July 15, 2013

THE Trayvon Martin verdict is frustrating, fracturing, angering and predictable. More than anything, for many of us, it is exhausting. Exhausting because nothing could bring back our lost child, exhausting because the verdict, which should have felt shocking, arrived with the inevitability that black Americans know too well when criminal law announces that they are worth less than other Americans.

Lawyers on both sides argued repeatedly that this case was never about race, but only whether prosecutors proved beyond a reasonable doubt that George Zimmerman was not simply defending himself when he shot Mr. Martin. And, indeed, race was only whispered in the incomplete invocation that Mr. Zimmerman had “profiled” Mr. Martin. But what this case reveals in its overall shape is precisely what the law is unable to see in its narrow focus on the details.

The anger felt by so many African-Americans speaks to the simplest of truths: that race and law cannot be cleanly separated. We are tired of hearing that race is a conversation for another day. We are tired of pretending that “reasonable doubt” is not, in every sense of the word, colored.

Every step Mr. Martin took toward the end of his too-short life was defined by his race. I do not have to believe that Mr. Zimmerman is a hate-filled racist to recognize that he would probably not even have noticed Mr. Martin if he had been a casually dressed white teenager.

But because Mr. Martin was one of those “punks” who “always get away,” as Mr. Zimmerman characterized him in a call to the police, Mr. Zimmerman felt he was justified in following him. After all, a young black man matched the criminal descriptions, not just in local police reports, but in those most firmly lodged in Mr. Zimmerman’s imagination.

Whether the law judges Trayvon Martin’s behavior to be reasonable is also deeply colored by race. Imagine that a militant black man, with a history of race-based suspicion and a loaded gun, followed an unarmed white teenager around his neighborhood. The young man is scared, and runs through the streets trying to get away. Unable to elude his black stalker and, perhaps, feeling cornered, he finally holds his ground — only to be shot at point-blank range after a confrontation.

Would we throw up our hands, unable to conclude what really happened? Would we struggle to find a reasonable doubt about whether the shooter acted in self-defense? A young, white Trayvon Martin would unquestionably be said to have behaved reasonably, while it is unimaginable that a militant, black George Zimmerman would not be viewed as the legal aggressor, and thus guilty of at least manslaughter.

This is about more than one case. Our reasons for presuming, profiling and acting are always deeply racialized, and the Zimmerman trial, in ignoring that, left those reasons unexplored and unrefuted.

What is reasonable to do, especially in the dark of night, is defined by preconceived social roles that paint young black men as potential criminals and predators. Black men, the narrative dictates, are dangerous, to be watched and put down at the first false move. This pain is one all black men know; putting away the tie you wear to the office means peeling off the assumption that you are owed equal respect. Mr. Martin’s hoodie struck the deepest chord because we know that daring to wear jeans and a hooded sweatshirt too often means that the police or other citizens are judged to be reasonable in fearing you.

We know this, yet every time a case like this offers a chance for the country to tackle the evil of racial discrimination in our criminal law, courts have deliberately silenced our ability to expose it. The Supreme Court has held that even if your race is what makes your actions suspicious to the police, their suspicions are reasonable so long as an officer can later construct a race-neutral narrative.

Likewise, our death penalty cases have long presaged the Zimmerman verdict, exposing how racial disparities, which make a white life more valuable, do not undermine the constitutionality of the death sentence. And even the most casual observer recognizes the painful racial disparities in our prison population — the new Jim Crow, in the account of the legal scholar Michelle Alexander. Our prisons are full of young, black men for whom guilty beyond a reasonable doubt was easy enough to reach.

There is no quick answer for the historical use of our criminal law to reinforce and then punish social stereotypes. But pretending that reasonable doubt is a value-free clinical term, as so many people did so readily in the Zimmerman case, only insulates injustice in plain sight.

Without an honest jurisprudence that is brave enough to tackle the way race infuses our criminal law, Trayvon Martin’s voice will be silenced again.

What would such a jurisprudence look like? The Supreme Court could hold, for example, that the unjustified use of race by the police in determining “reasonable suspicion” constituted an unreasonable stop, tainting captured evidence. Likewise, in the same way we have started to attack racial disparities in other areas of criminal law, we could consider it a violation of someone’s constitutional rights if, controlling for all else, his race was what determined whether the state executed him.

I can imagine a jurisprudence that at least begins to use racial disparities as a tool to question the constitutionality of criminal punishment. And above all, I can imagine a jurisprudence that does not pretend, as lawyers for both sides (but no one else) did in the Zimmerman case, that doubts have no color.

Ekow N. Yankah is a professor at the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law at Yeshiva University.
{End Article}
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/16/opinion/zimmerman-prosecutors-duck-the-race-issue.html?ref=opinion

Zimmerman Prosecutors Duck the Race Issue
By LISA BLOOM
Published: July 15, 2013

Driving to Target on his Sunday grocery run on Feb. 26, 2012, George Zimmerman looked out the window of his S.U.V. and saw a stranger who he instantly concluded was “a real suspicious guy.”

“Punks,” he said, adding an expletive. “They always get away.” There were unsolved burglaries in his community, and as he said in a call he made to the police, “this guy looks like he’s up to no good.” Mr. Zimmerman’s recorded profanity-laden police call became a focal point at his murder trial, but not because of its obvious significance: that Mr. Zimmerman jumped to insulting conclusions about Trayvon Martin primarily on account of Mr. Martin’s race.

What began as a local crime story gained national attention after African-American journalists and civil rights leaders immediately grasped the racial implications of the confrontation between Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Martin, and ended with Mr. Martin’s death. Mr. Zimmerman’s acquittal on Saturday sparked nationwide civil demonstrations against racial profiling and hate crimes. But in the courtroom, race was a topic carefully controlled by the judge and handled awkwardly by the prosecution team.

In an odd ruling, Judge Debra Nelson decided that the word “profiling” — but not the phrase “racial profiling” — could be used in opening statements. But what other kind of profiling could possibly have been involved here? Could jurors — and the public — seriously imagine that Mr. Zimmerman considered Mr. Martin a criminal solely because he was walking slowly in the rain as he chatted on the phone? Lawyers were free to use the profanity involved in the case over and over again, but initially the “r” word was off limits.

Shortly thereafter, it seemed the prosecution was building its case, at least partly, around Mr. Zimmerman’s obvious racial profiling, which was the run-up for the altercation and shooting that followed. The state fought hard outside the jury’s presence to enter into evidence police calls Mr. Zimmerman had made in the months before the shooting; 100 percent of the calls about suspicious persons involved African-Americans.

Though the judge ultimately granted the state’s request and admitted tapes of these calls into evidence, the prosecution did not use the evidence and remained strangely silent on Mr. Zimmerman’s pattern of racial profiling during its two closing arguments.

To those who followed the trial closely, as I did, it seemed a decision was made midstream to abandon the strategy that included calling attention to Mr. Zimmerman’s pattern. Prosecutors apparently trusted jurors to dispassionately evaluate photos of a dead teenager’s remains and of the bullet hole through his heart as well as photos of blood dripping from George Zimmerman’s head. But the state was too squeamish to put the touchy issue of race squarely before the six-woman jury.

The defense was far more comfortable with the disturbing racial aspects of the case, and as one of its final witnesses called a young white mother who had been robbed in the neighborhood months before the shooting. The witness, Olivia Bertalan, testified that she had cowered in her closet, baby in her arms, as two African-American males burglarized her home.

What did that have to do with Trayvon Martin? The prosecution never asked. Was Mr. Martin inherently suspicious because he was of the same race as the burglars — the clear import of this story? To attribute the wrongs of two African-American men to all African-Americans is the definition of racism. But the prosecutor never said so in court or called the jury’s attention to this fact.

In his closing argument, Mark O’Mara, one of Mr. Zimmerman’s lawyers, drove home the idea that Mr. Zimmerman’s profane police call was reasonable, arguing that Mr. Zimmerman’s descriptions of Mr. Martin and the burglars “did match the description, unfortunately, and that’s just maybe happenstance.”

But other than race and youth, no other description of the burglars was admitted into evidence. Race and youth were the sole basis of what defense lawyers deemed “a match.”

The state did not question any of this, much less point out that racial profiling was not happenstance but a way to filter out all other, nonracial, identifying factors How tall were the Bertalan burglars? Did they have any noticeable tattoos, facial features, haircuts, manner of speaking, gait, clothing? Had they been seen walking slowly in the rain, talking on the phone? The burglars’ and Mr. Martin’s mutual blackness obscured all else.
Related

By the defense logic, all young African-American males in the neighborhood would warrant a call to the police for walking while black — this in a racially diverse, middle-class community that is 20 percent African-American.

The most discordant note in the entire three-week trial came in the prosecution’s rebuttal closing argument, its last chance to drive its points home with the jury. John Guy, a prosecutor in the case, insisted forcefully that the case was not about race; relying on a strategy reminiscent of John Grisham’s book “A Time to Kill,” Mr. Guy asked the jury to consider a role reversal: would Martin be convicted if he had followed and then shot George Zimmerman? After this obvious, if implicit, reference to race, Mr. Guy finished up by reminding the jury that the case was not about race.

Huh?

Mr. Martin’s family, too, wavered on the subject. Mr. Guy’s remarks mirrored those made by Benjamin Crump, the Martin family lawyer, who said in September that the case “shouldn’t be about race,” though if the roles of the two young men were reversed, an arrest would have occurred quickly. (Mr. Crump had concluded with “that’s why race is involved in this case.”)

And after Mr. Martin’s friend Rachel Jeantel testified to the only racial epithet uttered in the courtroom — Mr. Martin’s characterization of Mr. Zimmerman as a “creepy-ass cracker” — another family attorney stood alongside Mr. Martin’s parents at a news conference and said, “To this family, race is not a part of this process. Anybody who tries to inject race into it is wrong.”

Yet Mr. Martin’s parents had traveled to Washington to attend a Congressional forum on racial profiling and hate crimes, which resulted in the Congressional Black Caucus’s describing the killing as one of “racial bias.” And in March 2012 Tracy Martin had said, “For the Sanford Police Department to feel as though they were going to sweep another young black minority death under the rug, it’s an atrocity.”

Many disturbing factors were present in the Zimmerman trial: his legal right to drive to the grocery store with a loaded concealed weapon, bullet chambered; Florida’s overly permissive self-defense laws; subpar crime-scene evidence-collection techniques; the oddly arrogant medical examiner who had little interest in answering the questions posed to him by counsel; the prosecutors’ apparent failure to adequately prepare their key witness, Ms. Jeantel; prosecutors’ failure to emphasize how Mr. Zimmerman’s gun, holstered behind him and inside his waistband, could not have been seen and reached for by Mr. Martin in the scenario Mr. Zimmerman described, where he was pinned on his back with Mr. Martin assaulting him; prosecutors’ failure to drive home the fact that Mr. Zimmerman’s claim that Mr. Martin pounded his head on concrete in his final moments did not fit the crime scene, since Mr. Martin’s body was found on the grass a substantial distance from any concrete.

The prosecution’s most glaring trial failure was its absence of a theory about what happened on the night of the shooting that would counter the defense’s frightening story about Mr. Martin’s pinning Mr. Zimmerman to the ground, straddling him and banging his head against the concrete and then reaching for Mr. Zimmerman’s gun. The defense seized upon the prosecution’s unusual practice throughout the trial, and especially in closing, of simply raising questions of what might have happened, rather than proving its own case or presenting its own theory about the facts. When both sides seemed to advocate for reasonable doubt, an acquittal was the only possible outcome.

It cannot reasonably be disputed that the incident that left Mr. Martin dead began with ugly racial profiling. But the prosecution seemed afraid to say so at any point in the trial. Instead, the state appeared to want to tread lightly on the jurors’ presumed delicate sensibilities on the dicey subject of race and, leaving the race question aside, simply pointed out that Mr. Zimmerman must have made “assumptions.” The state’s refusal to take an aggressive, clear position on Mr. Zimmerman’s racial profiling was, like many of its strategic decisions, a clear fumble.

One of the final photos the defense showed to the jury was a 7-Eleven surveillance camera image of Trayvon Martin an hour before his death, the kind of blurry photo one sees on the local news when the police are searching for a holdup suspect. This was the person George Zimmerman encountered, counsel insisted.

By the following night, Mr. Zimmerman was acquitted. Afterward, smiling broadly after her team had just lost the case, Angela B. Corey, the special prosecutor, said: “This case has never been about race.”
 

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Experience:

How did this happen? How is it okay for a man to conceal a weapon behind is back in his waistband, stalk someone, and then use the weapon in "self defense", all while the "suspicious" person has not committed any crimes other than strolling, chatting on the phone - Oh, and of course - walking while Black.


I highlighted the part that every single Martin supporter keeps forgetting or purposely leaving out. Martin initiated the physical fight by sucker punching Zimmerman thus breaking his nose, mounting him and reigning down MMA blows and bashing his head into the earth. This is called "assault" in America. Zimmerman feared if he went unconscious, he would have been killed, especially after Martin noticed the gun and said "youre gonna die tonight mother****er"

Yeah, someone tailing me would make me frustrated too, but that didnt grant Martin the LEGAL RIGHT to physically put his hands onto someone else. You have no right to touch a stranger unless they touch you first or come at you in some obvious threatening manner. Zimmerman was on his phone with his gun concealed when he was approched by Martin. Zimmerman was asked if he had a problem to which he said "No." This proves Zimmerman did not want to engage in a battle then and there. He wanted police back up. Now maybe if Zimmerman was chasing after Martin with his gun DRAWN and yelling "get over here nigger!" then it would have been ok for Martin to do what he did. As we all know, he paid the price with his life. He should have kept walking home and called police or peacefully confronted Zimmerman

Zimmerman was not a racist. The FBI interviewing 45 people confirmed that. Zimmerman even mentored young black youth.

So yes, in summary, shooting someone who physically initiates a violent confrontation is called self defense.

ps: watch this video for facts the media didnt want people to hear, especially about how the ice tea and skittles was for drug purposes called lean. I can vouch for the autopsy report because im an MD. He shouldnt have had fatty liver infiltrates without significant drug useage. Im sorry but I refuse to believe he had a rare family condition causing the liver changes. Instead, I think I'll just read Martin's own tweets about his constant search for drugs.
More Lesser Known Facts About The Martin-Zimmerman Case - Video
 

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OP... please close thread...

...you couldn't even state facts to begin with
 

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Thank you TSxklap! This is good stuff to know. I can share this with the people in my office.
I'm glad to see it was not as bad as the media originally made this out to be. BUT unfortunately, in my line of work, it is more often the case that it is.
For example, who was most commonly the evil/bad guy in our earlier Hollywood films? A big black guy. Who voices the evil bad guys in older animated films? Deep voices black guy. So society portrays the traits they posses as "evil", "dangerous", etc. it's no surprise that there exist the "threat of race".
In the United States, the police force originated from slave patrols. So bias in current policing is inevitable. ALTHOUGH there is a movement for change thankfully enough!


OP... please close thread...
...you couldn't even state facts to begin with
I presented to articles published in news. they contained the facts that i mentioned. Tsxklap was invested enough to find the facts that were misleading. That is the point of this conversation. Now when others search, they will get hits on this with new, relevant info. This is much needed.

The point was for someone to respond with new information to answer the questions I posed. Obviously, I wasn't under the impression that there was only one truth, or why would I ask for clarification?

Welcome to the beginnings academic discussion. Feel free to contribute something useful. Ignoring the issue doesn't bring about change or progress for anyone.
:)






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I've only read your first post (your experience), and I would like to shine my opinion on this issue. As some of you know I am VERY pro-gun. I believe citizens should have the right to carry a gun for self-defense, IF the person is not a violent felon of course. So there was NOTHING wrong when Zimmerman carried a gun during his neighborhood watch routine. He was in the wrong for disobeying the operator and decide to follow and "investigate" Trayvon, but that is not the case. It's all about who attacked who. Funny how people say "oh but he followed him, therefore he is guilty." No, it's about who attacked who." Also, this isn't about race issue, and how the **** did this lead to another "gun control" debate on the media?

Also, Zimmerman is mixed race Hispanic, but I guess he's white on the Media.


One more thing... the riots... I bet you more than half of this people don't know what they're are rioting about.
 

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This is old news and its allready played out... No one knows what really happen other than the two... I think this thread should be closed because it will get ugly..
 

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I didn't realize there was rioting as well? That seems to have gotten out of hand.

I really hope this doesn't get ugly. But closing the thread for fear if people talking about what is REALLY going on in regards to race, is EXACTLY why racial disparities, discrimination and bias continue to exist. You can't make the issues go away by not talking about them. That's muted racism. Racism continues to afflict various ethnic groups, yet we say "race" no longer exists - that's "biology" and we got rid of that back in the holocaust.

That's false. All we did was change out racial terms for coded words like "merit".

I posted in this forum section specifically for the rules that were set. Opinions will be spoken. If you feel offended, or could be offended, please refrain from offensive responses, if possible. This is an academic discussion, I hope.


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As for gun control, that's seems like politics trying to join in, particularly anti-gun politicians trying to gain ground.

Still, why did Zimmerman follow the man? Because he was suspicious? How suspicious should he have been if he was not a Black, hooded individual?
There is obviously no answer to that because it played out as it did. But it is the concept that I am targeting. A concept that is all too present in research on the issue.

As for it having already played itself out, again, I find that a struggle to accept. If we don't broach the issue when it happens or investigate more about it, it will continue to repeat itself. If this was solely a coincidence that happens to be heavily shaded, then it still represents a potential example that STILL does occur.

Lastly, it appears that others are bringing up the idea that Zimmerman was not "white". Hispanic is considered "white" and they have worked hard to gain that status, as it was not originally so. Regardless, it is still possible for ethnic/cultural groups to be racist against each other. Racism is not just White on ________. I am interested in inter group relations.

To close this thread would be backwards progress in bringing these issues to light. Then again, it is just a car forum lol. But the rules said...


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As for gun control, that's seems like politics trying to join in, particularly anti-gun politicians trying to gain ground.

Still, why did Zimmerman follow the man? Because he was suspicious? How suspicious should he have been if he was not a Black, hooded individual?
There is obviously no answer to that because it played out as it did. But it is the concept that I am targeting. A concept that is all too present in research on the issue.

As for it having already played itself out, again, I find that a struggle to accept. If we don't broach the issue when it happens or investigate more about it, it will continue to repeat itself. If this was solely a coincidence that happens to be heavily shaded, then it still represents a potential example that STILL does occur.

Lastly, it appears that others are bringing up the idea that Zimmerman was not "white". Hispanic is considered "white" and they have worked hard to gain that status, as it was not originally so. Regardless, it is still possible for ethnic/cultural groups to be racist against each other. Racism is not just White on ________. I am interested in inter group relations.

To close this thread would be backwards progress in bringing these issues to light. Then again, it is just a car forum lol. But the rules said...


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This is 100% wrong. I have taken dozens of standardized tests over the last couple years getting my medical license. The testing companies always asks these optional questions about your race, age, and sex for infomatics. I can vividly remember specific answer choices that read "WHITE/NON HISPANIC"

And as far as saying Zimmerman isnt white, that is true. He grew up speaking Spanish as his first language. He identifies himself as a latino. Saying Zimmerman is a white Hispanic is like calling Obama a white African American. Go say that in public and you will get the wildest stares back at you.
 

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Still, why did Zimmerman follow the man? Because he was suspicious?
You need to watch this 7 minute video of why young black men are deemed suspicious by law enforcement and the reasons behind it. What if I told you the murder rate commited by young black men is 10x that of white AND hispanics put together? Why are most people imprisoned for drug offenses black? All of your answers are perfectly summed up in 7 minutes. There are problems with all races and bad people exists in every color and shape but there is undeniably a problem with black culture that promotes and endorses drug use, street violence (ie taking matters into your own hands), derogetory statements towards women, horrible fashion trends (wearing pants around knees) that prevent human beings from obtaining good jobs and climbing up the education ladder. I'll admit I like rap and have it in my car but I dont do what the lyrics tell me to do. Unfortunately, young black kids who grow up in broken families turn to music for guidence and they are getting all the wrong messages.

And I'm not going to address your argument about old entertainment making black people the villans because 1) i cant make excuses for the past its just the way things were unfortunately and 2) hollywood today makes white people villians and black people the heroes (ie the move django where jamie foxx gleefully proclaims "I get to kill aaaallllllllll the bad white people")

Bill O'Reilly: President Obama and the race problem | Talking Points | The O'Reilly Factor


And dont gang up on him guys. It's good that we are showing him the facts because hopefully he will learn them and then can spread truth to other people he might talk to.
 

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Lol I don't doubt you. Although I have heard that comment about Obama VERY often.
I agree with you, and support in my own research, that the person is what they identify.
Unfortunately, in your case, you are mistaking you medical licensing administration for the "standard" in determining race/ethnicity. An educational institution etc, will use certain ethnic designation to their advantage. "Look how diverse out student population is!" Or in your case, "look at the diverse population our licensing program serves!" Now, when they advertise, they can hit more of the population. I know UBC does it. They recruited me for their promotional advertisements partially because of my awesome :) achievements, but largely because I'm not white.

An example of Hispanic as white can be found in the US census surveys. The Mexican-American population in particular has previously worked very hard to "elevate" they're status to white, and that is reflected by the government's designation in the census itself. Recently, their is a North American movement toward re-indigenation" to ones culture, now ethnic cultures are seeing a shift from the desire to be white, towards the desire to represent ones own culture.
This is all based on the history of the US. I really want to share the citation but I'm mid move, and everything is slammed in a uhaul. Lol. All I have is my iPhone :)

Thanks for sharing!


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The issues you mention about the problems in black culture are very present.
But we forget that the current disadvantages that lead to these stem from the past discriminations that these populates have lived with.
Look up "redlining". You want to know how ghettos & china towns really originated? You want to know what education is underfunded, and neighbourhoods lacking investment, particularly in ethnic neighbourhoods does to a population? Because financial institutions, loaners, etc provided biased services to them. High interest loans, mortgages, etc IF any at all. They forced them into specific zones to keep them apart from "other" populations.

Is it a surprise that a multiple-generational family exhibits the problems after generations of poor education, low investment neighbourhoods, and social neglect. Detroit anybody?

This isn't to say that is the truth for everyone everywhere, but it is present.
North America is a neoliberal capitalist society based off the Western Mechanistic paradigm? It's SYSTEMICALLY design and advantages towards its originating population. Yes it is moving toward diversity, but the roots are forever European. What if the culture was based on an "African mechanistic world view?" Things would be different!


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Bro, I appreciate the insight you provide but I will say it only one more time. The idea that the vast amount of Hispanics consider themselves "white" is not believed by a majority of people in this country otherwise I would have vivid recollections of being corrected of this at some point my 26 year life. Lastly, you are entitled to your own opinion but I firmly believe the United States Medical Licensure Committee knows how to classify people of different races better than you. They would not put an option for "WHITE/NON HISPANIC" (exactly how I typed it) if that was not endorsed by anthropologists and epidemiologists communities as a whole who classify things for a living.

And the census surveys dont mean very much. You give it too much credit because it has a gov't stamp on it. I'm going with the medical professionals on this. Plus, the census questions you reference to are going to be changed.
 

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Bro, I appreciate the insight you provide but I will say it only one more time. The idea that the vast amount of Hispanics consider themselves "white" is not believed by a majority of people in this country otherwise I would have vivid recollections of being corrected of this at some point my 26 year life.
Sorry, that is miscommunication! I agree with you. Hispanic Latinos themselves may not consider themselves white. I actually believe that they don't, and advocate such! I am a firm believer in re-indigenation. 100%. Everyone should support who they want to be. I have helped design treatments manuals to be more congruent with the client's social/cultural beliefs, instead of supplying a "specific cultural" service to someone, just because they "appear" to be of that culture. I know you agree.

Lastly, you are entitled to your own opinion but I firmly believe the United States Medical Licensure Committee knows how to classify people of different races better than you.
Lol. This is not my opinion, this is decades of researchers that I collected for myself for the past few years. So maybe, their opinion. Like you said, your field is medicine, mine is race and culture. And not just the surface issues. We go beyond, that too look at the source of bias. Bias such as medical service policy makers' knowledge, attitudes, and awareness of cultural issues, or lack there of until recently (~2XXX officially)
Ppl hold medicine as the epitome of well standard science maybe? But may not know that it is based on the paradigms of empiricism and positivism, both off shoots of the western mechanistic world view. Originating with European culture. Why is it so great? Because it meets all the stringent rules and tests that are set for it. What methods and criteria are used to evaluate it? The same ones that make up its methods! So testing medical science using science... Of course it's going to work. Mathematics (the language of empiricism) is man-made. What do we do when something doesn't make sense with the current math we have? We invent new math to encompass it! Lol. Just an example of how systemic cultural bias exists. Many ppl live it and don't even realize.

They would not put an option for "WHITE/NON HISPANIC" (exactly how I typed it) if that was not endorsed by anthropologists and epidemiologists communities as a whole who classify things for a living.
I didn't disagree that you saw it on your test, and that it is one form of presenting statistics (psychometrics is the other have of my field). I'm saying, that it was previously (sorry when I said recently- in my field that represents decades ago lol!) a hard fought battle for Mexican Americans to be recognized with the same rights as whites - THIS is more what I meant. Bad wording on my part. BUT it was granted with the designation of a Mexican American being able to claim white status - an option that was demanded by the Mexican American population, not just simply granted by the govt. this is your history, not mine. But it appears I know it ;). Only because it is my job to know it. This was not much different than the problems Italians, Irish, etc faced.
I'm sorry, this part isn't a debate, it's historical fact :S

And the census surveys dont mean very much. You give it too much credit because it has a gov't stamp on it. I'm going with the medical professionals on this. Plus, the census questions you reference to are going to be changed.
Census was a simple reference to show that a medical licensing committee isn't the only institution classifying groups. In fact, it is biased as demonstrated. In fact, medicine is a field in desperate need of cultural training due to the disparities that exist in its service delivery. I'm glad to say that it probably at the forefront when it comes to making change though!

Lastly, I'm not hear to change your mind. I only talk to you because you're talking to me :). I introduced two short articles to get a conversation going. They were a spark, to get the ball rolling on the real issues. I like to keep this from being a debate between me and ______ because its somewhat unfair based on my knowledge and experience. It's still fun for me to learn new things! I can't introduce too much because the group doesn't have the same context I do. I was more interested in others going at it LOL. But I'm always happy to answer questions and guide discussion.

I'd like to hear other's thoughts on if they've noticed cultural bias in a field that they work in! I did justice, TSXklap showed one in health! :p




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