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Discussion Starter #1
Big article on the Scions in the NY Times today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/25/automobiles/25AUTO.html

It's a mixed bag. Most of the article makes it seem very good -- sales are strong, and the review of the cars is extremely positive -- but if you read beyond the first few paragraphs, you find a big, big red flag: There seem to be "quality" issues:

"In the latest initial quality survey by J. D. Power & Associates, the upstart brand placed near the bottom of the rankings - an unfamiliar place for Toyota."

I don't regard JD Power as one of the more reliable indicators, because IMO the criteria are very poorly chosen. But still, when a car ranks TOWARD THE BOTTOM, that's pretty bad. I don't think the JD Power criteria do a very precise job -- e.g. separating the great cars from the good cars, or the good cars from the average cars -- but when a car comes out POOR, that's not good.

It usually takes a while for things like quality problems to affect a car's reputation and sales. The Scions are still hot. But if these "quality" concerns are real -- and, as per the above, I think most likely they are -- Toyota better fix things real quick or else the Scions won't stay hot for very long.
 

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The Voice of Reason
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"All The "News" We Can Make Up, We'll Print!"

If you look up the JD Power ratings for the Toyota ECHO, they're hardly impressive, either.

A cheap POS is a cheap POS, no matter who sells it.

http://www.jdpower.com/
 

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Discussion Starter #4
bob shiftright said:
If you look up the JD Power ratings for the Toyota ECHO, they're hardly impressive, either.

A cheap POS is a cheap POS, no matter who sells it.

http://www.jdpower.com/
A little off the subj (but maybe not).....

As I posted a while back, the Echo got totalled in an accident, which fortunately was judged pretty quickly to be totally (literally totally) the other driver's fault.

The car was almost two and a half years old, and actually three years old in terms of model year (it was a 2001 which we got after the 2002's were already out for a while) and it had over 20,000 miles.


Wanna guess what percent of the original cost the insurance gave on it?
(Hint: Guess high.)


I know that there are a lot of factors in these kinds of things, but I say that "quality" -- good quality -- was in there.
 

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The Voice of Reason
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larchmont said:
Wanna guess what percent of the original cost the insurance gave on it?
(Hint: Guess high.)


I know that there are a lot of factors in these kinds of things, but I say that "quality" -- good quality -- was in there.
OK. Interesting exercise here!

I looked up the kbb (Kelly Blue Book) trade-in value for a 2001 Toyota ECHO with 20,000 miles (4-door, AT, ABS). I also looked up the cars.com transaction price for a similarly equipped new 2004 ECHO. $6220/$14,120 = 44%.

For purposes of comparison I also looked up the comparable trade-in and market values for a 2001 and a new 2004 Volvo S60 2.4T. (Nicely equipped, or "loaded" including sunroof, leather and 17" wheels) $15,560/$30,675 = 51%.

Reason I chose the Volvo was because my Volvo has hardly demonstrated the sort of reliability that Toyota would be proud of.

Consumer Reports recommends BOTH at the moment, but projects the Volvo's reliability at "average" and the ECHO as "best".

So I think that there is more that goes into the free market's assessment of quality and value than reliability.
ssssssss2

CLICK for Economic definition of "inferior goods"....
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
So.....are you guessing 44%? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


BTW it didn't have ABS -- we couldn't find one with that! :donno:
 

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