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scheisse passiert
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Just a thought, and if a repost, Mods please delete. Some of you already know that currently I have a Honda Prelude, but my next car will be a TSX. Most people tell me that I should go with an RSX-S, being that it is closer to what the Prelude is (2-door coupe, 200hp vtec). I personally am looking to get into the 4-door sport sedan scene, which takes the RSX-S out of the picture. So, onto my question.

When I first saw/heard about the TSX, I thought that it had the same exact motor as the RSX-S (200hp i-vtec). It was only until recently that I found out that, correct me if I'm wrong, the RSX-S uses the K20 engine and the TSX uses the K24 engine. Both produce 200hp with the new RSX's getting a hp bump to 210hp for 2005.

1)What is the difference between the 2 motors if both have 200hp?
2)I'm assuming that the RSX-S's faster speed numbers are all due to lower weight. Is this correct?
3)If the TSX (K24) is a slightly larger motor, then technically, couldn't it be tuned to be more horsepower than the RSX-S (K20)?
4)If Honda could produce 10 more horsepower out of the RSX-S engine for 2005, then why wouldn't they do the same for the TSX? If the engine is basically the same, but the K24 is larger in liters, then shouldn't it be EASIER for Honda to increase the output than in the K20?

Conclusion: (Sorry for the long post) I think that a great sticky on this forum would be one titled The Major Differences Between the RSX and the TSX Powertrains Put into an easy to understand format, could be an invaluable resource for anyone teatering on the RSX/TSX purchase decision.
 

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I don't really have the answers, but ironically I and my family just went through a discussion like this, because my lady's son just got an '02 RSX and so we were interested in the whole subject of RSX's.

BTW.....It's not clear if you realize that the base RSX doesn't have 200 hp and isn't going to have 210 hp --
only the S version of the RSX.
The base RSX has 160 hp; don't know if that's going to increase in the '05.

Also my impression has been that the RSX and TSX don't have basically the same engine, but I don't know.

Regarding your question about why the RSX's speed numbers are better than the TSX's, again, I think that's only the S version of the RSX -- and yes indeed I have assumed it's because of the RSX's lower weight. Let's see, what are those figures anyway?

TSX 3230 lb.
RSX 2721 lb.

That's a big difference -- the TSX weighs 19% more. If you have two cars with the same hp but one of them weighs 19% more, you'd expect a significant speed advantage for the lighter car. (Depends on torque too, of course, and the RSX has less than the TSX.) Also, the better speed numbers for the RSX-S over the TSX are on short or straight runs only. When you get into stuff requiring any kind of fancy handling, I'm pretty sure the TSX catches up and runs away.

BTW the kid loves his RSX.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Good point, Larch. I should have been more specific. I'll edit my post to refer to the type-S.

Isn't it funny that they made the TSX a better handling car? I mean, the RSX-S is supposed to be the "sport coupe" and the sedan get's the better handling characterisics. In fact, CarandDriver.com said that the handling of the TSX reminded them of the Prelude! :)

Car and Driver Article

On page 2: "As far as handling characteristics, the TSX is reminiscent of the dearly departed Honda Prelude, a multiple 10Best winner and champion of our “Best Handling Car Under $30,000” (June 1997). Each possesses a point-and-shoot mentality that allows you to drive the snot out of it with little fear of getting bit in the ass, and each inspires more confidence the faster and harder it’s driven."
 

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Ludefahrer97 said:
1)What is the difference between the 2 motors if both have 200hp?
2)I'm assuming that the RSX-S's faster speed numbers are all due to lower weight. Is this correct?
3)If the TSX (K24) is a slightly larger motor, then technically, couldn't it be tuned to be more horsepower than the RSX-S (K20)?
4)If Honda could produce 10 more horsepower out of the RSX-S engine for 2005, then why wouldn't they do the same for the TSX? If the engine is basically the same, but the K24 is larger in liters, then shouldn't it be EASIER for Honda to increase the output than in the K20?
- In a nutshell, the K20a motor is a higher revving engine allowing a higher bhp output when compared with the K24a which is a lower revving engine producing identical/similar power, but torque on the K24a is much greater due to the 400cc displacement increase.

- Think power to weight ratio differences, this is the most important factor in acceleration figures regardless how much power any motor puts out.

- Both engines are identical in external size, though however the K24a has larger conrods, cranks and pistons to gain the 400cc displacement. The valve springs, retainers are also not designed for higher revs without modification. Refer to your next question.

- Above all, the fuel mapping, ignition timings and ECU controls how much power and torque can be put out. A better comparison is the K24a also found in the CRV, identical engine almost but one puts out significantly greater power - In this case the CL9 TSX/Accord. In short in an indentical block, when you want torque, you'd sacrifice horsepower and vice-versa.
 

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Ludefahrer97 said:
Isn't it funny that they made the TSX a better handling car? I mean, the RSX-S is supposed to be the "sport coupe" and the sedan get's the better handling characterisics.
No surprises there, Honda implemented a McPherson strut suspension geometry setup design for the EP3 Civic and DC5 RSX/Integra chassis primarily due to cheaper production costs and savings. Whilst the CL9 TSX/Accord retains Honda's traditional implementation of the Double Wishbone strut suspension design.

The double wishbone design is more superior when compared with the McPherson design when it comes to handling and putting power to the wheels/ground. Although more expensive, Honda knew it could not get away from the design change to improve the FF handling reign it has over any other FF layout makes/models, therefore a switched back to the double wishbone design was immediately re-implemented.

A good example is Spoon where they initially had the EP3 and DC5 as their next endurance race car but quickly scrapped any racing plans for these after they found that the McPherson design was soft and weak, prone to failure - (Breakage particularly) instead implementing the CL7 Euro R as their current overseas endurance race car instead. The Spoon President speaks about this in an article after a BM video highlighting their EP3 and DC5 cars with failed/broken struts whilst filming/showcasing.
 

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If you want more info on the differences between all the k series engines pick up the latest Honday Tuning. I wouldn't normally suggest that but there's a really good article about all the engines.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the info! Perfect answer to my question!
 
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