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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I will be buying my first car in about a month. I have been trying to decide between the Acura TSX and the Subaru Legacy GT limited and I got the chance to test drive both the cars. The Legacy GT manual felt very nimble and torquey. The turbo boast was extremely thrilling. The all wheel drive is a good option, but I won't be using the car in a snowy region.

The local Acura dealer told me that only 6% of the TSXes they sell are stick and so they don't stock them. So my only option was to test drive the automatic. Even though the looks of the TSX are quite impressive and the interior vrey luxurious, I was disappointed with the driving experience. There was no excitement and the car almost seemed sluggish. I've driven a Mazda6 220hp manual and even that seems more torquey and fun than the TSX.

I do not know if my experience was because I was driving the automatic or the engine seriously lacks power. But since I won't be able to test drive a manual I'm really confused about making my decision.

Any comments?

FirstCarOwner
 

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find a 6-spd to drive. Tell them you're not interested unless they can find one. There'll be a good difference. I'm not saying its going to be faster/stronger then the subie but it'll be a goo difference. Any more dealerships around?
 

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You're right in your review.
TSX is definitely NOT a powerful, torquey, fast car. Acceleration is rather dismal.
IMO stick/auto don't make much of a difference.
It is afterall a 4-banger. It's a "slow" car that CAN be driven fast - if you rev it up.

If handling, look & finish is secondary and power is important to ya. I'm inclined to say you'd be disappointed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I've tried asking a lot of dealers. They say that they will have to order a manual for me if I put down a deposit. Is the manual really going to feel more torquey than the automatic?
 

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robert_tsxgeek said:
.....TSX is definitely NOT a powerful, torquey, fast car. Acceleration is rather dismal.....
For the benefit of browsers who might be coming across this thread.....we should point out that this isn't literally true, at least not by most people's standards.

For real "enthusiasts," yes indeed it's true, but it's not flat-out true.

Take me, for example. (Please!) :D

I'm not a "real enthusiast" and, granted, I'm a little older than most :D but I'm much more into cars and driving than the average person. I pick my cars very carefully, and I'm a pretty tough audience. And I find the TSX reasonably powerful and "torquey." While I would welcome some more horsepower (and I'd pay for it), I don't view it as a top priority for this car. If I had Aladdin's lamp and I could wish for add-ons, this wouldn't be in the top two or three.

And it's not like I haven't had and enjoyed cars that are more powerful. I was coming from an '03 TL-S, which I happily gave up for the TSX. The superior handling and tighter feel more than make up for the loss of power. Way more.


Larchmont, who hopes everybody had a fine torquey dinner last week. :D
 

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We spent a long time test driving cars before settling on the TSX.

While it is not a fire-breathing, scary-fast monster (and I've driven some of those), the TSX definitely does not LACK power. More is always better - it goes without saying. But never in 6 weeks and 1200 miles have I actually wished it had more power. It's got more than enough to be a great daily driver, even with an automatic.

We drove a 2003 Audi A4 1.8T almost back to back with the TSX. Now that felt sluggish. The TSX is somewhat faster (if only a little), but the big difference is this: the TSX's power delivery is smooth as silk, and relatively quiet. It may not rock your socks off, but it doesn't feel like it's beating itself to death to give you what it's got. The 1.8T lurched and thrashed and felt like it was killing itself for you every time you got on it.

We also drove several Accord V6 EXs, and the better handling and tighter feel of the TSX more than make up for the slight power deficit.
 

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Subaru designed and manufactured the Liberty GT specifically to target/compete against Honda / Acura TSX for market share. If the Subaru takes your hat, it's very hard to change that fact.

One is naturally aspirated, one is turbocharged with outright power vantage. They both handle just as well if anything, not to mention they both share similar styling cues right up to the minute details and trim levels.

Where you draw your line is the sand has been clear. Go with your heart. ;)
 

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Duke said:
.....The TSX is somewhat faster [than the 1.8T] (if only a little), but the big difference is this: the TSX's power delivery is smooth as silk, and relatively quiet....
I wonder if this isn't a lot of it? (I mean a lot of what makes some people feel it's a slow car.)

Our sense of a car's power can depend on more than the actual power itself. You know those "mods" that you can buy for $9.95 and that promise to boost your car's "power," but all they do is make a bunch of VROOOM VROOOM noise? Of course that stuff is just stupid, but I think it relates to what I'm saying.

I remember those days before the TSX came out, when we were just batting around the rumors about the car -- and one of the main complaints about the TSX ws that it was too quiet and too smooth. At the time it seemed odd to me that this was a complaint, because it was one of the main things that made me believe I was going to love the car (and it was). But yes, it does take away from the sense of raw power.
 

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Well I haven't really heard of the TSX/Euro being "sluggish", infact to the contrary in all the reviews and in my own experience. There are different factors to take into account, first of all what sort of fuel did you use? Obviously the higher octane the fuel the more power and smoothness you will feel. I noticed this when I changed from Mobil Synergy to Shell Optimax here in Australia, BIG performance increase when going to Shell ! Secondly it depends on how you drive it, I have a Auto and in normal mode it is still reasonably beefy, however when I put her into sequential mode I couldn't believe the acceleration, it will accelerate from high revs in first to 2nd without so much as a jolt! You have to remember, to get the most out of the TSX/Euro motor you need to give it some stick, the higher rev range is really where this car takes off!

Then there is quality, Honda have a reputation of making a good quality car here in Australia, Subaru while they are good arn't quite up to the same standard, besides the TSX/Euro looks much nicer :D
 

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larchmont said:
I wonder if this isn't a lot of it? (I mean a lot of what makes some people feel it's a slow car.)

Our sense of a car's power can depend on more than the actual power itself. You know those "mods" that you can buy for $9.95 and that promise to boost your car's "power," but all they do is make a bunch of VROOOM VROOOM noise? Of course that stuff is just stupid, but I think it relates to what I'm saying.

I remember those days before the TSX came out, when we were just batting around the rumors about the car -- and one of the main complaints about the TSX ws that it was too quiet and too smooth. At the time it seemed odd to me that this was a complaint, because it was one of the main things that made me believe I was going to love the car (and it was). But yes, it does take away from the sense of raw power.
I guess you have to take into account that power is not noise, sure I can go and get a small block V8, that is going to make lots of noise but doesn't have the power to back it up!
 

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larchmont said:
Our sense of a car's power can depend on more than the actual power itself. You know those "mods" that you can buy for $9.95 and that promise to boost your car's "power," but all they do is make a bunch of VROOOM VROOOM noise? Of course that stuff is just stupid, but I think it relates to what I'm saying.
Please explain where will I find something like that?
 

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Thank you, PK!

But.....maybe I'm stupid (what else is new?) :D but.....that thing seems like maybe it REALLY DOES add some power???

Or maybe not.....Anyway, I was talking about stupid things that were found by some people from the TSX sites, things that seemed to promise an increase in power but just made noise.

I can't imagine Noel would really be interested in that kind of crap. :D
 

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larchmont said:
I wonder if this isn't a lot of it? (I mean a lot of what makes some people feel it's a slow car.)

Our sense of a car's power can depend on more than the actual power itself.
Honda Motor Co., Ltd. prides itself on, first and foremost, being an engine company.

Looking beyond the TSX headlights, the dash lighting, the pleather seats and the alien-planet faux wood on the dash, the TSX has one gem of an engine.

My rule of thumb has been that an AT torque converter robs enough torque as is provided by one or two more cylinders or a small turbocharger. No, I don't think the TSX is a slow car, that motor seems to cry out to rev. In terms of stump-pulling torque, it's no Viper but I'd still prefer the TSX almost everywhere but at Daytona.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
With 250lb-ft of torque at 3600rpm, the Legacy GT was definitely a stunner. But I don't need that much g-force to thrill me. Even the Mazd6 v6 manual transmission is quite a lot of fun to drive around. I've found it very convenient to shift down to 3rd and rev ahead of slower traffic. Unfortunately, the auto TSX didn't give me that impression. Flooring the gas pedal made the TSX rev like crazy but I couldn't feel the car accelerate due to the torque converter taking it's own sweet time to lock-in. I dunno how much better a manual could do. If the TSX could match the Mazda6 torque and preferably beat it, I'd consider it to be a fun car to drive.

I also wished the TSX didn't look like the European Accord. That image doesn't seem too appealing to me... especially if they upgrade the American Accord to look like the European one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Dunno why these car dealers can't stock stick shifts. We need propaganda to encourage TSX buyers to stop being laze and get stick shifts :)
 

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FirstCarOwner said:
With 250lb-ft of torque at 3600rpm, the Legacy GT was definitely a stunner. But I don't need that much g-force to thrill me. Even the Mazd6 v6 manual transmission is quite a lot of fun to drive around. I've found it very convenient to shift down to 3rd and rev ahead of slower traffic. Unfortunately, the auto TSX didn't give me that impression. Flooring the gas pedal made the TSX rev like crazy but I couldn't feel the car accelerate due to the torque converter taking it's own sweet time to lock-in. I dunno how much better a manual could do. If the TSX could match the Mazda6 torque and preferably beat it, I'd consider it to be a fun car to drive.

I also wished the TSX didn't look like the European Accord. That image doesn't seem too appealing to me... especially if they upgrade the American Accord to look like the European one.
Sounds like you have already made up your mind, so I don't understand why you are posting here still. You won't find many people here agreeing you as this is a TSX site and most of the people who post here already own a TSX or the European/Asia Pacific version called the Accord Euro. I have driven both the Mazda6 and the Euro and the Euro for me beat it hands down in performance and handling. I don't understand which European Accord you are talking about either, the Accord Euro here in Australia doesn't look ANYTHING like the standard V6 Accord, which is why the car is so appealing... it is alot sportier looking and more appealing to the younger and older markets alike.

For example, these are image galleries from both the Accord Euro (think TSX) and the normal V6 Accord.

Accord Euro (luxury)

http://www.honda.com.au/Accord/Euro/EuroLuxury/image+gallery/exterior+photos.htm

Accord V6

http://www.honda.com.au/accord/accord/V6Luxury/image+gallery/image+gallery.htm

For me the Euro/TSX is by far the better choice and looks much nicer than the standard Accord, I like the aggresive styling, while also handling like a dream. Did you actually try the Auto in Sequential/Sports mode?
 

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Could agree more, I'm with Thorn2004. I say buy the Liberty GT instead of the Mazda if the TSX is out of your selection choice. Not only will the Liberty GT be more responsive to mods but it's virtually a more superior car hands down compared with the Mazda IMO.
 
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