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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, fellow members.

i own CL9 honda accord (K24A3) ' 2006, which is pretty much the same as TSX (the difference is there, of course, but i've got some other question instead).

So, i've installed Weapon-R exhaust manifold (4-2-1) + testpipe, all thanks to Marcus, and got my stock ECU replaced with TSX hondata reflash recently.

Well, everything goes smoothly (check engine light is exception, but is going to be fixed - it is related to EVAP difference between Accord and TSX), rev limit is 7600 and VTEC kicks in at 5000 rpm. Just as promised :thumbsup:

I'm one step before ordering Toda A2 cams which i've heard are doing well WITHOUT k-pro, and can give me quite significant torque + power increase.

i should note that i am NOT going to try K-pro + dual harness due to some reasons, so the question is:

Has anyone tried such setup : stock or reflashed ECU + toda A2 cams? If so, what was/is increase? maybe dynochart?

Thank you much!
Greets from Russia :flower:
 

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I've never heard of it but then I've never researched this. But what I do know is that, your cams of choice can not go outside of Honda's tuning limit. If the cam duration cause the valves to be open longer than allowed, you could damage the pistons. Also, Honda has it tuned to take in so much air and fuel before it goes into "limp" state. So again, if the cams are too aggressive, then the car wont run properly. Do some research and a little algebra and you could figure out how aggressive you can go.

But to make it easier, you could also google it or, with any luck, someone here or on k20.org has done it and can help you. Good luck!
 

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If they are "drop in" cams you can use them without any problems. But if they are considered "stage 2" or higher and need upgraded valve train to run them, then you wont be able to use them without possibly harming the motor. So check to see if they are drop in cams or if Today makes drop in cams. And what I mean by drop in cams is cams that you can use your existing valve train with (springs, retainers, etc.)
 

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Even the drop in Kelford stage 1's I was looking at, which used the stock valve train, said they needed tuning to realize the full benefit.

If it's possible to gain 29hp with cams and a tune, then you ought to figure it will take some extra air and fuel to get there. The cams take care of air, but without fuel, you will run lean. This could be bad for the engine, and if you were to drop in the cams without tuning, you might spend all that money and barely see results. The car may even lose power.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes, they're "drop in" cams, operating with VTEC and VTC (25 degree, which is what we all have on stock).

i am going to use these cams with improved retainers + springs (say, Brian Crower) yet i've found empty K20A2 head, which has a better air flow performance.

The question is though:
Are the cams (Toda A2 - thats only stage 2) worthy to try for that price? has anyone tried such a setup and measured the difference?

Thanks!

p.s. i've been lurking k20a.org for a while and i can hardly find any info about K24 setups :donno:
 

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do it and let us know ! :)
 

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Yes, they're "drop in" cams, operating with VTEC and VTC (25 degree, which is what we all have on stock).

i am going to use these cams with improved retainers + springs (say, Brian Crower) yet i've found empty K20A2 head, which has a better air flow performance.

The question is though:
Are the cams (Toda A2 - thats only stage 2) worthy to try for that price? has anyone tried such a setup and measured the difference?

Thanks!

p.s. i've been lurking k20a.org for a while and i can hardly find any info about K24 setups :donno:
You dont have to touch that K20a2 head.. Your head flows better since you have an 06+. And if the cams are stage 2 cams they arent "drop in" cams. I wouldnt put them in the motor unless your gonna tune them with Kpro. Just like previously mentioned above, you'll end up losing power and ruining your motor.
 

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Well personally, I wouldnt do it without a proper tune. If you say that its a pretty mild cam, since its a "drop in" setup, then why not look into the stock 06 TSX cams?
Im not sure how the 06 TSX cams compare to the 06 CL9, I've asked people before, but they were saying that the lobes and design are different - i doubt any difference, but its something for you to look into.

If your sticking to stock VTC at 25 degrees, im not sure how much the gains would be with the cams alone - assuming that it can work safely. According to the TSX setup posted up by Hondata, a lot of the gain was from adjusting VTC to 45 degrees.

Just my 2c, but I would look into the 06 TSX cams as posssibly a safer option.
 

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Well personally, I wouldnt do it without a proper tune. If you say that its a pretty mild cam, since its a "drop in" setup, then why not look into the stock 06 TSX cams?
Im not sure how the 06 TSX cams compare to the 06 CL9, I've asked people before, but they were saying that the lobes and design are different - i doubt any difference, but its something for you to look into.

If your sticking to stock VTC at 25 degrees, im not sure how much the gains would be with the cams alone - assuming that it can work safely. According to the TSX setup posted up by Hondata, a lot of the gain was from adjusting VTC to 45 degrees.

Just my 2c, but I would look into the 06 TSX cams as posssibly a safer option.
I was gonna say the same.. I was guessing his head was the same as the 06+ TSX heads since he has an 06. He's not gonna use Kpro so going with a 45 degree VTC wont do anything if your using it on the stock ECU because it wont advance it past 25 degrees.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well personally, I wouldnt do it without a proper tune. If you say that its a pretty mild cam, since its a "drop in" setup, then why not look into the stock 06 TSX cams?
Im not sure how the 06 TSX cams compare to the 06 CL9, I've asked people before, but they were saying that the lobes and design are different - i doubt any difference, but its something for you to look into.

If your sticking to stock VTC at 25 degrees, im not sure how much the gains would be with the cams alone - assuming that it can work safely. According to the TSX setup posted up by Hondata, a lot of the gain was from adjusting VTC to 45 degrees.

Just my 2c, but I would look into the 06 TSX cams as posssibly a safer option.
alright, i have to clarify that even 2006, accord has the same cams as tsx 2004.

and i'd rather stick to tsx 2006 intake cam, cause exhaust one is identical.

now, when i imagine i got that tsx IN cam, performance would increasy very slightly, not even noticable without k-pro.

thats why i'm looking for aftermarket cams.

lets not forget that though 06 tsx cam is more aggressive, it is still designated for city routine drive, economy and low emission.

so?:)
 

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After reading the posts: I suggest not getting cams for now. Focus on getting power else where for the time being. Look into pulleys, different intakes, and other little, minor power mods. Keep doing your research for a while, thats a good bit of money to dump into an engine knowing it might not work.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Keep doing your research for a while, thats a good bit of money to dump into an engine knowing it might not work.
that sounds definitely wise ;) thats why i've started this thread, hoping to hear some experience from fellows.

alright, Sirs, i will continue to lurk around and won't hurry now to spend money on that cams :)
 

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Bad idea to throw in cams without proper tune. Even reflashed ecu dont know nothing bout er new shiny cams. You need kpro to tune any aftermarket cams, they r all throw in but have specs not as stock ones and need to be tuned precisely to get result. Someone local tried to put in just slightly upgraded 06 tsx cam into reflashed with 04yr car and got no any result at all , he later ordered an ecu reflashed with 06 reflash and said wow, now i feel that cam, really. Call any respected tuner guys and youll hear the same statement. Dont waste ur money, get kpro first, everything is started from management and only from it. With kpro you can get a lot even from stock motor. Dont touch ur head stuffing unless youll gonna use some aggressive stage 3 cams, stock sprinngs holds 7600 rpm just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
sorry for offtopic, but out of curiosity:

Is there any difference between 05 reflash ECU and 06 reflash ? i mean, 05 reflash operates perfectly both 05 and 06 TSX, even though there is difference between them (at least, 06 tsx has higher IN cam).

so, can i have the same performance on 06 TSX with 05 ECU, as with 06 ECU reflashed?

Please? :)
 

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Hi, fellow members.

i own CL9 honda accord (K24A3) ' 2006, which is pretty much the same as TSX (the difference is there, of course, but i've got some other question instead).

So, i've installed Weapon-R exhaust manifold (4-2-1) + testpipe, all thanks to Marcus, and got my stock ECU replaced with TSX hondata reflash recently.

Well, everything goes smoothly (check engine light is exception, but is going to be fixed - it is related to EVAP difference between Accord and TSX), rev limit is 7600 and VTEC kicks in at 5000 rpm. Just as promised :thumbsup:

I'm one step before ordering Toda A2 cams which i've heard are doing well WITHOUT k-pro, and can give me quite significant torque + power increase.

i should note that i am NOT going to try K-pro + dual harness due to some reasons, so the question is:

Has anyone tried such setup : stock or reflashed ECU + toda A2 cams? If so, what was/is increase? maybe dynochart?

Thank you much!
Greets from Russia :flower:
hope this helps.

straight from Toad Au's mouth:

For the K24A I do recommend you go with Spec C camshafts over Spec A2 or Spec A3 due to the size of the OEM low cam in the CL9
& the capacity of the K24 engine.
Idle quality & street manners are excellent when tuned correctly.

Regarding valve train parts compatibility.
The valve spring seat & valve spring retainer need to be changed to K20A/Z items.
The K24A valve spring is narrower in diameter & so has a smaller retainer & seat that is not suitable for the K20A spring.
Aftermarket parts are also available in lieu of OEM. In this case, we use & recommend “Supertech”
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Idle quality & street manners are excellent when tuned correctly.
it worries me much. you know i would like to keep my idle smooth as in stock :)

however toda-racing.co.jp still prefers to dodge the straight quenstion what will happen to my idle if i throw in C spec (A2 is okay with idle, though)
 

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it worries me much. you know i would like to keep my idle smooth as in stock :)

however toda-racing.co.jp still prefers to dodge the straight quenstion what will happen to my idle if i throw in C spec (A2 is okay with idle, though)
a friend of mine here in Aus has spec c in his cl9 already,
even with an un-tuned k-pro it idles pretty close to stock, except for a small (very small) change in the exhaust note.

thats at 750rpm too.

but what i'd want to no is if with the re-flash can you adjust idle speed like the k-pro?

i went straight for k-pro once i could get it to work with my 06 cl9 so i never bothered to look into the specs on the flash.
 

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sorry for offtopic, but out of curiosity:

Is there any difference between 05 reflash ECU and 06 reflash ? i mean, 05 reflash operates perfectly both 05 and 06 TSX, even though there is difference between them (at least, 06 tsx has higher IN cam).

so, can i have the same performance on 06 TSX with 05 ECU, as with 06 ECU reflashed?

Please? :)
Hey Russia ) Shure it has some differences, since 06 flows a lil better due to its bigger tubes, bigger valves, better flow cat, bigger vtec lobe to fill in cylinders hondata used this to set vtec point a lil earlier in 06 reflash. Im shure it has some diff in fuel maps too. The better mods to flow you have the lower vtec you can set to have effect from it. Vtec mode needs lots of air , if er setup cant provide this amount on desired vtec point then youll achieve power dip down instead of power pop up.
So 05 tsx reflash will work on 06 tsx engine but is senceless from the power POV coz all improvements of 06 engine r not used properly by ecu.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
a friend of mine here in Aus has spec c in his cl9 already,
even with an un-tuned k-pro it idles pretty close to stock, except for a small (very small) change in the exhaust note.

thats at 750rpm too.
now, thats definitely good news, because i'm studying C specs now and i have an opportunity to buy used C cams in an excellent condition for the decent price :thumbsup:

previous owner states they're giving somewhat +20 whp power compared to stock, so i don't know, maybe worth trying.

but what i'd want to no is if with the re-flash can you adjust idle speed like the k-pro?
absolutely impossible. reflash is a ready-to-go, you cannot change settings there. well, and you should not since it's superior mod for its price and for stock setup;)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hey Russia ) Shure it has some differences, since 06 flows a lil better due to its bigger tubes, bigger valves, better flow cat, bigger vtec lobe to fill in cylinders hondata used this to set vtec point a lil earlier in 06 reflash. Im shure it has some diff in fuel maps too. The better mods to flow you have the lower vtec you can set to have effect from it. Vtec mode needs lots of air , if er setup cant provide this amount on desired vtec point then youll achieve power dip down instead of power pop up.
So 05 tsx reflash will work on 06 tsx engine but is senceless from the power POV coz all improvements of 06 engine r not used properly by ecu.
hi fellow Ukraine :) glad to see you here.

of course, i do underdstand that they (05 and 06 reflash) do differ :yes:

the question is: what is that difference ? if it barely can be seen then i don't care, but if it is about +10 power/torque then i should consider get 06 reflash along with some higher lift cams.

what do you think of it?
 
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