Acura TSX Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Guitar and Amp Junkie
Joined
·
465 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been doing a lot of reading on miscellaneous forums regarding the Accord, 325i, Maxima, and TSX (all cars that I am considering).

Strangely enough, whenever the TSX comes up -- and it comes up a lot -- there has been a very strong polarization along these lines:

-- It's a great car, and I dare you to find another with similar features/performace for less money

or...

-- It's a European Accord, I can't believe you would pay that much money for a 4-cyl Accord.

No other car mentioned has such a strong reaction. In fact, in a conversation of entry-level sport sedans, the TSX comes up more than any of them, regardless whether the topic is directed at the TSX specifically.

Seems like Acura has struck a nerve with the car-buying public. :)

It also appears that the people who are bashing the TSX the most are those that already own an Infiniti, Lexus, BMW, Audi or similar entry-level sport-luxo sedan/coupe. Interesting.

For instance, I don't think I've read something like, "I own a Mazda6, and it's a far better car than the TSX for less money", or "I bought an Altima after considering the TSX because the TSX is overpriced". But I have heard something along the lines of, "...the Mazda6 and Altima are better cars" from people who are currently driving BMW's.

Makes me wonder, why the strong negative reaction from equivalent, and higher-end, car owners towards the TSX?
 

·
, Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
10,086 Posts
Interesting note, Ferg.

I hadn't thought of it that way, probably because my viewpoint is so "TSX-centric" (AND I KNOW IT) that I never imagine that any emphasis or focus on the TSX that I come across is anywhere but in my own head. But you're right. And there's a lot of it even among TSX-aficionados, like on "that other site," although not so much recently because it was pretty much done to death a while ago.

And from those discussions, which I usually seemed to find my way into :D I didn't see it as a polarization, although it did get intense at times. I mainly tried to understand what the story really was. And I think we did get down to it -- that the TSX is very much a Honda, and pretty much an Accord, sort of -- but it REALLY IS different enough from any Honda (including the Euro Accord) to make a significant difference for some people. In fact, it seemed reasonable to say the things that make the TSX such a special car are a direct result of those differences, but you could argue against that too.

BTW at least on the TSX sites, the people arguing the "negative" view were usually pretty friendly about it, although, as you might guess, they tended to drive Accords, not TSX's.

One major focus of those discussions has been the question of whether ACURAS IN GENERAL are anything more than "just Hondas." Those of us who regard Acuras as "better" were on the defensive, even being made to feel as though we had just been suckered by PR and image into a whole illusion. Complicated subject, but when all was said and done, I felt basically as I had at the start: At least with regard to the specific Acura models that I've owned, they're quite distinct from any other Honda product that has been available in North America. Whether they're significantly distinct from Hondas offered elsewhere, I couldn't tell you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
332 Posts
I see a lot of BMW v M-B v Audi,and Lexus v Infinti as well. I think owners in the entry-lux and higher category tend to take more pride in ownership, have cross shopped and chose their car for their own reasons, and rejected other makes based on the same criteria. So it's only natural that other cars won't appeal to them as much.

The TSX is also the lowest priced of all the entry-lux cars (when similarly equipped) which automatically makes it a target for those who think status (read $$$) is a factor.

Speaking of price, the TSX occupies a price point which allows it to be cross-shopped with both entry-lux and loaded family sedan categories. Versus the latter, it doesn't have the numbers on paper to compete. Those either less informed or who place less emphasis on sportiness will see less value in a TSX. The TSX is about balance and that doesn't show up well on the spec sheet.

Acura doesn't have the brand equity to overcome the pure spec sheet compare. For instance, I think it's rare for an Accord buyer to diss the M-B C230K for having a 1.8L four-banger, yet the TSX is criticized even though it's got more power than M-B.

Unlike Toyota, Honda doesn't have the platform diversity to give their lux brand a distinct set of platforms to base their cars on. Despite clever packaging, there's a noticeable relationship between Civic-EL (Canada), Euro Accord-TSX, USDM Accord-TL and Pilot-MDX. On the other hand, Lexus can field almost a complete RWD lineup with only the ES and LX sharing platforms with USDM Toyota products. That's where the "dollied up Honda" opinion comes from and as a result, the Acura brand suffers in comparison to the other lux makes.

I, for one, think that's all irrelvent as the TSX is damn good car for the price. I also think it's an ideal upgrade for current Honda owners, as it suits their driving style. i.e. FWD, I-4 high-revvers are not a disadvantage. But I can see how others may perceive it differently for the above reasons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
I think the arguments of Euro Accord is quite interesting.

In my opinion, it doesn't really matter whether TSX is really just a Euro-Accord or not. I would think of it as following choice:

1. Paying mid-20's for the US Accord V6 (LX/EX) sedan with auto
more comfortable ride

2. Paying mid to high 20's for TSX (you can say Euro-Accord) 4 cyclinder
sedan with manual, more sporty ride.

I chose choice #2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,255 Posts
So did i...Although I also drove a SAAB 9-3 vector, and a 300m prior to the tsx. Also went home and slept on it....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
I think those people who are biased against the TSX have not done their homework.

1. Audi is a great car, but no Navi with the 1.8t, 180hp, you have to get 3.0 to get Navi option

2. BMW overpriced Audi in my opinion. I lived in Germany 3 years and have driven a few while I was there. Base Bimmer starts at $28K+ with 184hp no real options yet.

3. Nissan Altima the only one worth mentioning here in my opinion as far as value. Has good specs in every aspect, but it's not as refined as an Acura. I didn't buy one because of my previous history with my Xterra SE.

4. Mazda 6 remindes me of the Pontiac Grand Am. They look and ride nice but in the end it turns out to be a total piece of crap.

These are just quick oberservations on my part while I was shopping for my car. Just my two pennies. Also its been my experience that when someone constanly talks about another car they feel threaten by it. Take it however you want good or bad. :thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
larchmont said:
Thanks for resurrecting this thread, Diesel!
I should thank you, larchmont, for helping me out in various questions that I have. :)

Some additional opinion on the subject....
I don't know if the friends that I hanged out with are all looking at car instead of brand name or not. However, a friend of mine is about to buy the C230 K, but after he sat next to me when I test drove the TSX, he said he would reconsider his purchase of the MB because he said TSX obvious is a better car.

As for myself, I really didn't choose TSX for its brand name. If it is called Honda TSX I will still get this car.
 
G

·
Bird Chirp

I am the very proud owner of a new TSX - We love the car, with one exception. On very warm days, after about 30 minutes we hear a squeeking sound from the back of the car. It sounds a bit like a bird chirp. The dealer spent 1 1/2 days trying to find the source and concluded the rear struts had to be replaced. Sounds like major surgery.

Any other TSX owners have the same problem?

Thanx,

Bob
 

·
TSX of the Month Winner
Joined
·
5,350 Posts
I just hate the car now....
more <3 to my accord. No love to the TSX.

I feel like the accord is my wife, the TSX is a mistress....
The TSX brought me happiness at the beginning... but then cause too much troubles now.

all in all... wife > mistress
 

·
, Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
10,086 Posts
rkobberger said:
I am the very proud owner of a new TSX - We love the car, with one exception. On very warm days, after about 30 minutes we hear a squeeking sound from the back of the car. It sounds a bit like a bird chirp. The dealer spent 1 1/2 days trying to find the source and concluded the rear struts had to be replaced. Sounds like major surgery.

Any other TSX owners have the same problem?

Thanx,

Bob
Welcome Bob -- but sorry to hear about the problem. I have the impression that the newer TSX's are less likely to have such rattles and squeaks, but obviously there still are problems.

Check out this thread, which may or may not be helpful:

http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1655
 

·
, Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
8,663 Posts
SAZABI said:
I just hate the car now....
more <3 to my accord. No love to the TSX.

I feel like the accord is my wife, the TSX is a mistress....
The TSX brought me happiness at the beginning... but then cause too much troubles now.

all in all... wife > mistress
Yes...but wife sees mistress = no more wife or mistress.. :D
 

·
, Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
8,663 Posts
SAZABI said:
NO NO... wife sees mistress... hubby get beat up by wife, then go beg for forgiveness... = yes wife, no more mistress :jump:
Actually...it's more like:

wife sees mistress... hubby get beat up by wife, then go beg for forgiveness... = :nutkick: , Wife still leaves hubby...then mistress :nutkick: ...and no more wife or mistress.. :D
 

·
, Administrator Emeritus
Joined
·
2,496 Posts
What's In A Name?

What's In A Name?
Jonathan Fahey

General Motors found out last year that a forthcoming Buick sedan called LaCrosse, to be offered in Canada, was French-Canadian teenage slang for masturbation.

Volkswagen's (otc: VLKAY - news - people ) SUV, the Touareg, is not only unpronounceable for many Americans but was also named after a tribe of north African nomads that, it turns out, traded slaves well into the 20th century.

Twice in the last two years Ford Motor (nyse: F - news - people ) has named prototypes of new cars after ones from its storied history only to find out it didn't own the names anymore. The supercar now called the GT was to be called the GT40 after the legendary car from the 1960s. And a new midsized sedan to go on sale next year was to revive the Futura nameplate. It still doesn't have a new name.

"Naming is one of the most arduous and crappy tasks that an organization has to do," said Phil Martens, Ford Motor's group vice president for product creation, recently.

Steve Lyons, president of the Ford division, agreed. "It's harder than naming your children."

And it's happening more often than ever. According to a recent study by AutoPacific, a marketing and product consulting firm, we are at the beginning of the biggest growth in new nameplates in this century. There were 55 nameplates after World War II. There will be 240 this year, and AutoPacific estimates there will be another 32 between now and 2007.

That raises all kinds of problems for carmakers. There's the expense of supporting a nameplate with design and advertising. And because the number of nameplates is growing faster than sales, each nameplate will have to be profitable selling far fewer copies. Then, of course, there's the issue of finding a good name.


To read about the Best, Worst & Weirdest car names, click here.
"The English language dictionary is largely taken," says James Bell, a senior partner at New York-based brand consulting firm Lippincott Mercer. Hence neologisms, which date at least as far back as Kodak. The name was conceived by founder George Eastman more than a century ago. What was the rationale behind calling his company Kodak instead of, say, Eastman? Eastman's comments to the British Patent Office when registering his trademark read like a primer from Marketing 101:

"This is not a foreign name or word; it was constructed by me to serve a definite purpose. It has the following merits as a trade-mark word: first it is short; second, it is not capable of mispronunciation; third, it does not resemble anything in the art and cannot be associated with anything in the art."

Some carmakers will hire firms like Bell's to do just that for them--Lippincott Mercer created the Infiniti name for Nissan (nasdaq: NSANY - news - people ). Bell, who has been a crossword puzzle buff since he was 10, and a team of five or six other wordsmiths (the puns in the office, Bell says, are frequent and frequently bad) come up with an initial list of as many as 1,000 names.

Then a committee will wade through the list and pick 100 or so that are the most appropriate--ones that can be pronounced, that might resonate with the intended market and don't offend the wrong people. Anything longer than three syllables almost never works. (Except, of course, for Lamborghini, which doesn't worry about naming a car Murciélago, after a bull by that name that gored a matador in 1879. All Lamborghinis are named after bulls.)

Those 100 names will be checked against the list of registered names with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. The 30 that remain will go to the client. After the client cuts that list down to 10 or 15, more legal work is done, checking for competition internationally and state by state. Also, some linguistic work is done to make sure something the carmaker might be selling in Brazil doesn't mean "this car is a death trap" in Portuguese.

After the choices are down to a handful, logos and slogans are developed, and often the candidates are put through clinics with would-be customers. Eventually, the client picks one. The cost can reach into the high six figures, mostly for the legal legwork.

Sometimes it isn't nearly so difficult. The designers for DaimlerChrysler's (nyse: DCX - news - people ) Chrysler Crossfire used the name when they were dreaming it up. It stuck and passed all the legal hurdles in front of it. A Honda Motor (nyse: HMC - news - people ) product planner came up with the Insight name for Honda's first hybrid vehicle.

When Toyota Motor (nyse: TM - news - people ) was trying to name its new luxury brand in the mid-1980s, it was kicking around names like Celsius and Alexis. When someone on the team heard the "Alexis" proposal, the person didn't hear a woman's name but "a Lexus" instead. It stuck, but not before a battle with LexisNexis, the research company that is now a Reed Elsevier (nyse: ENL - news - people ) division.

Sometimes names are too successful. Honda Motor's Acura division produced a popular Legend sedan from Acura's debut in 1986 through the mid-1990s. But the Legend name inspired more devotion than the Acura name. "We wanted anyone who was driving an Acura to think first that they were driving an Acura," says Honda spokesman Andy Boyd.

Acura now does what almost every other luxury nameplate does--abandons names altogether. Acura makes an RSX, a TSX, a TL, an RL and an MDX. They aren't exactly poetry, and the letters stand for absolutely nothing. The idea is that people driving smallish, exclusive brands will think and talk of the brand, and not the nameplate. That's not so possible for a full-line brand like Ford. Say you drive a Ford and you could be talking about a $15,000 Focus subcompact, a 10,000-pound F-350 SuperDuty or a Ford GT that goes 200 mph.

Cadillac is in the process of abandoning names like Catera, Seville and Deville for the supposedly sleeker CTS (derived from Catera Touring Sedan), STS (Seville Touring Sedan) and DTS (Deville Touring Sedan). Mercedes similarly has its C-class, E-class and S-class, and BMW its 3-series, 5-series, 6-series and 7-series. In both cases, the numbers next to the initial character, C240 or 760i, for example, refer to the displacement of the engine. So the 760i has a 6.0 liter engine. The "i"? It's meaningless. "It used to stand for fuel injection," says a BMW spokesman. But now, because all engines sport fuel injection, "it's just a historical thing."

Other names have more purpose behind them. Toyota named its hybrid Prius, which Toyota wanted the world to see as a technological marvel, because the word is Latin for "to go before."

In the mid-1980s, General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ) gave the small-car brand it was creating the code name Saturn. Not after the planet, or the Roman god of fertility and agriculture, though. The name refers to the Saturn rocket that sent Americans to the moon during the space race with the Soviet Union. The idea was that with Saturn, GM could beat the Japanese in the small-car race.

How many people know what Prius means in Latin, or that Saturn doesn't refer to the planet? Not many. This is one of the things that bothers Ford's Martens so much about naming. "The customer doesn't care about the name," he says. "They just want a good car."

http://www.forbes.com/vehicles/2004/07/12/cz_jf_0712featB.html
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top