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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
The manufacturer equipped hood, is it made of aluminum?
or it's just the usual heavy material?

The reason I'm asking because the Carbon Fibre hood is available in my area later. But no price yet. The owner of the shop said he's going to Japan to import a few by the end of december.

Anyway, can the experts tell me the advantage between Carbon fibre and aluminum hood? And what is a reasonable price for getting one? Do they worth to buy one?

I'm quite sure they are lighter, but don't know how many kilograms lighter?
 

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No...not Aluminum...
 

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The OEM hood is made of steel just like 85% of all Honda models, if I remember correctly, only the S2000 and NSX have been provided an aluminum hood from factory. Of course the NSX-R is in another league of it's own.

Carbon is used as a weight reduction but how and what type of carbon is used will strictly determine how much it costs, weights and ultimately - How strong it is. Most so called "carbon hoods" you can easily buy from retail and cost about $500-$800 are not true carbon. They're simple a carbon layer applied on a fibreglass overlay, so when it comes to weight reduction, you aren't that much far off from the OEM one.

Dry carbon is what you should be looking for if you truly want weight reduction, this can take away from 50%-85% of the OEM weight whilst retaining if not have a stronger/rigid structure because of the material used. Of course this comes at a premium at can easily double if not triple one in pricing. Feels' Honda Twin Cam and Phase Racing have dry carbon applications for the CL7/9 at this stage.
 

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The phase carbon hood, is so different from US made hoods, it cost $1600cad but it looks and feels different, and you can see right away in the stiching the the weaves are smaller and alot tighter
 

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JDM manufacturers who employ Dry carbon body components usually use a 1+1 weave configuration (Tighter/closer or 2+2 wider/more obvious weaving), but this is not always the case. It's simply a preference on styling.
 

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Wouldn't decreasing the amount of weight over the front wheels be more of a disadvantage than advantage? I mean, you're essentially decreasing the weight over the wheels that propel the car... thus decreasing the traction, especially on wet roads.
 

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I wouldn't believe so, if anything weight reduction especially on a front wheel drive Honda shows significant improvement in acceleration and handling. The bonnet is simply carrying too much unsprung weight to begin with.

The only adverse effect from weight reduction is more likely related to reducing structural strength - Composite regidity of the item you've replaced. But with the correct materials used, this can be retained if not further improved.
 

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The bonnet is simply carrying too much unsprung weight to begin with. - Not true as The weight of the hood is being supported by the suspension, thus making it "sprung" weight. The decrease in weight would provide minimal advantage for a street car other than the obvious "cool" factor. To really notice advantages from weight you need to not only add carbon fiber to replace factory steel, but also strip the car of unnecessary weight like sound deadening, rear and passenger seats and so on. Obviously this will not take place unless you are turning your TSX into a race car, and if thats the case I want to see when its done
 

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jonpfive said:
The weight of the hood is being supported by the suspension, thus making it "sprung" weight. The decrease in weight would provide minimal advantage for a street car other than the obvious "cool" factor.
If you consider the bonnet sprung weight, just about every other component is considered sprung weight minus what are touching the ground ... I can't see any justification in your statement.

Once again, material - composite structure does have an adverse/dramatic effect when you're talking about a 75-80% weight reduction on any item/component. How you measure advantage is up to one's intepretion ... ala - 1 second quicker means nothing to most, to some it is everything.
 

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Also don't forget the most weight saving tool you have is a lighter you....
 

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Noel- the concept is simple:anything that is supported by the vehicle's springs is considered sprung weight. If you really care to become knowledgeable in the subject area, read all of the "...to win" books by Carroll Smith.

Also, I dare you to find a CF hood that would alone shave 1 second off of a quarter mile time. If you were really informed in the subject area you would find that 1 Second is a ton in drag racing and the means to achieve that are not as simple as bolting on a CF hood.
 

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A fair estimate that is widely used is that 200 lbs. is equal to 1 tenth of one second in the quarter. That being said, the 15 to 25 lbs you would save in replacing the hood alone translates to hundredths or even thousandths of one second. So again, unless you are really stripping the car of all unnecessary weight, the CF hood is for the "cool" factor.

The Carroll Smith books are "Tune To Win", "Engineer To Win", "Prepare To Win", and I believe "Drive To Win". He is one of the most respected men in motorsports history and a solid source on vehicle dynamics.
 

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jonpfive said:
Also, I dare you to find a CF hood that would alone shave 1 second off of a quarter mile time. If you were really informed in the subject area you would find that 1 Second is a ton in drag racing and the means to achieve that are not as simple as bolting on a CF hood.
Ironically, I've no problem doing this on just about every car I've driven which has employed a dry carbon bonnet to easily drop 1 second off their acceleration time.

Perhaps it's a psychological effect. And since this is a TSX forum, when I get my dry carbon bonnet replacement ... I will make a note to shoot a video clip to indicate that the 1 second is quite achievable.
 

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Noel, your claims are simply ridiculous. I'm not sure what the title "technical moderator" denotes. But I hope your not supposed to be the expert around here. While you made a good point about any weight saving being good, and about front wheel drive cars having too much weight up front, that weight - and in fact nearly all of the weight of any car - is sprung weight, as in "to be resting on a spring". If this is not abundantly clear by now, please provide your definition of sprung and unsprung weight.
As far as your time trials and the gains you've apparently made with numerous cars simply by changing the hood, all I can say is that you certainly couldn't be doing scientifically sound testing. Your little brother standing at the intersection with a stopwatch doesn't count.
Now, I'm not trying to flame you here. And I'll let it go after this, but these kind of claims are so far out there that I had to back up Jonpfive. Some people, some of these kids, may not know who's right.
 

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Noel said:
Ironically, I've no problem doing this on just about every car I've driven which has employed a dry carbon bonnet to easily drop 1 second off their acceleration time.

Perhaps it's a psychological effect. And since this is a TSX forum, when I get my dry carbon bonnet replacement ... I will make a note to shoot a video clip to indicate that the 1 second is quite achievable.
Are we talking 1 second faster to 60mph or in the quarter-mile?

If you're talking to 60mph, then basically you're saying that by just simply installing a CF hood, a stock TSX will get to 60mph in about 6.2 seconds? That's RSX Type-S territory.

That would also mean that putting a CF hood on a stock RSX Type-S would make it as quick as a WRX.

What cars have you driven and gotten these type of results?
 

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luskiiimj said:
Noel, your claims are simply ridiculous. I'm not sure what the title "technical moderator" denotes. But I hope your not supposed to be the expert around here. While you made a good point about any weight saving being good, and about front wheel drive cars having too much weight up front, that weight - and in fact nearly all of the weight of any car - is sprung weight, as in "to be resting on a spring". If this is not abundantly clear by now, please provide your definition of sprung and unsprung weight.
As far as your time trials and the gains you've apparently made with numerous cars simply by changing the hood, all I can say is that you certainly couldn't be doing scientifically sound testing. Your little brother standing at the intersection with a stopwatch doesn't count.
Now, I'm not trying to flame you here. And I'll let it go after this, but these kind of claims are so far out there that I had to back up Jonpfive. Some people, some of these kids, may not know who's right.
Sorry to have got you all flared up. But all I see is a contradictory attitude towards what you're saying to me. As indicated above, I'd let the video say it all. Not long to go now, my dry carbon bonnet is expected to be here by December.

sjlee said:
Are we talking 1 second faster to 60mph or in the quarter-mile?

What cars have you driven and gotten these type of results?
This is marked as a 0-400 time reduction. All results replicated in similarity on Hondas only.
 

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Noel said:
This is marked as a 0-400 time reduction. All results replicated in similarity on Hondas only.
Huh? 0-400 time reduction...please elaborate. Is that some kind of Aussie timing thing?

I'm looking forward to that video, because 1 second off the 1/4 mile much less 0-60 is highly unlikely with just a CF bonnet/hood replacement. Of course the quarter/0-60 are the timing things we use here in the states.
 
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