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Discussion Starter #201
Holy crap! You didn't get much out of that tire.

A couple years ago when I had new RE-71Rs, the right rear picked up a piece of metal.
Although it didn't cause a flat, there was quite a gash in the tire, so I bought a new tire.
Probably only had a few hundred miles on the new tires.
Yeah luckily these have less than 30% life left on the insides or I'd really be torn up about it. If I had a tire need replacement after just a few hundred miles I'd be scathing lol.

Already heard from Discount Tire - my tires came in so I'm having them mounted in about an hour. I plan on having the tires in the rear flipped from left to right and right to left. Since the tires have some camber wear and the outsides have much more life I'm going to do the old switcharoo trick to get some more life out of the rears. Hopefully the brand new fronts and flipped rears wear at close to the same speed.
 

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J-Spec
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RE-71Rs are great performance tires for the street. Very sticky, but not quite like a serious track tire.
You won't see the true advantage of them until it gets warm. And for the level of grip, are pretty quiet.
Below is my compromised tire. I was definitely aggravated, but water over the dam now.

46957
 

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Discussion Starter #203
Wow that tire is super fresh still! What a kick in the dick.

I agree, I've yet to drive on these above 50* so I know they'll stick way more when warm.

I spent alot of my weekend in the garage adjusting suspension to get these fitting the way I want.

Up front I pulled the coils off, cleaned them up, added preload, lowered ride height, and reinstalled. Then I added ~2-2.5* of camber up front. Toe is all over the place but whatever.

Moving to the rear, same thing - added preload, decreased ride height. Only on the rear I took ~1-1.5* camber out. On the driver's side I cannot get the upper camber kit to break loose. The lock nuts came off easy enough but the arm itself must be rusted to ****. Plenty of WD40 and pure rage (very rarely is a bolt stronger than me) and I still can't get the ****** to break loose. Might have to buy a mini torch to get some heat on it.

Only thing left is to break this thing loose and get the camber on the left rear dialed in and then go get an alignment.




Pretty happy with the front tho:
 

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Looking spiffy as usual. Seeing your eyeballed -2.5 in front is seriously making me consider Brock's suggestion of the TL UCAs. My ride height is set fairly high right now, 100% based on where the fronts don't scrape with no camber adjustment. Front camber should help reduce understeer some more too.

Pretty soon you'll be out of space to add preload! I remember you saying you like your ride pretty stiff, still liking the flex Z with 12k/7k? I was accepting of it until a trip through Louisiana months ago... I returned to Texas loathing my suspension. Loosely following a very detailed thread on (that other site) I ended up removing the 12k springs, moving the 7ks up front and installing a pair of Hyperco 275# (~5k) in the rear.... And my car is now a (nearly stock feeling) comfy people carrier by day, but still handles some real driving with firm control when I want/need it to. I am happier than I have ever been with these coils.
Oh... And if you ever take your coils apart for any reason, I highly recommend throwing in some appropriately sized thrust bearings. I think JEGS sells some that are sealed units, to avoid the unsightliness of grease. I didn't buy those in particular, opted for Japan made bearings instead... But a simple $10-15 per corner for thrust bearings drastically reduces the amount of effort required to change preload. Never want to mess with a set of coils that doesn't have them ever again.
IMG_20200314_165700~2.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #206 (Edited)
Looking spiffy as usual. Seeing your eyeballed -2.5 in front is seriously making me consider Brock's suggestion of the TL UCAs. My ride height is set fairly high right now, 100% based on where the fronts don't scrape with no camber adjustment. Front camber should help reduce understeer some more too.

Pretty soon you'll be out of space to add preload! I remember you saying you like your ride pretty stiff, still liking the flex Z with 12k/7k? I was accepting of it until a trip through Louisiana months ago... I returned to Texas loathing my suspension. Loosely following a very detailed thread on (that other site) I ended up removing the 12k springs, moving the 7ks up front and installing a pair of Hyperco 275# (~5k) in the rear.... And my car is now a (nearly stock feeling) comfy people carrier by day, but still handles some real driving with firm control when I want/need it to. I am happier than I have ever been with these coils.
Oh... And if you ever take your coils apart for any reason, I highly recommend throwing in some appropriately sized thrust bearings. I think JEGS sells some that are sealed units, to avoid the unsightliness of grease. I didn't buy those in particular, opted for Japan made bearings instead... But a simple $10-15 per corner for thrust bearings drastically reduces the amount of effort required to change preload. Never want to mess with a set of coils that doesn't have them ever again.
Thanks man! I'm actually not entirely sure where my camber is. I'm guessing -2.5 based on where I set my UCA camber kit to VS where it was when I got them from Tony (I bought this camber kit used from him) I think he was running north of 3* and I'm a adjusted a little bit in from where he had them when I received them so -2.5* is my guess. I'll report back with specs when I get it aligned.

I was actually worried I'd run out of threaded body to increase preload but I felt above the collars and theres plenty of threads left. I do like my ride stiff. If anything I wish my springs were a little stiffer. The roads here are just so bad that with soft springs I'd be banging my UCA on the shock tower every 10 seconds. It still happens often enough as it is.

Were the 12k and 7k springs the same height? Never thought they'd be able to be switched. I've never seen those thrust bearings for coils before! Lord have mercy I wish I had those before. Took some serious grunt to get the spring seats broken loose, especially on the rear since I haven't adjusted them in 3+ years. Next time I play with my coils those are definitely going on. Do you have a link to the ones you used? Are they the unsealed ones in your pic? Great idea here!

Update: went to the store to get a 1 1/16" or ~27mm box wrench for my camber kit and wouldnt you know it's too big. I measured the opening of my crescent wrench at what I thought was ~27mm but apparently it's a 26mm so I'm stuck waiting til tonight to get a different wrench. I hope 2 days of WD 40 soaking helped kill some of that corrosion. If not i'll be ordering a small propane torch.
 

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J-Spec
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WD40 is not really designed to be used like that. Kroil is designed to free up corroded fasteners.
It's the best stuff I've used, but it still isn't great. I hate working on corroded stuff. I try to put
anti-seize on every bolt/nut when I have stuff apart. Even exhaust fasteners, but you have
to use the copper-based anti-seize for those because of the heat.

I've seen some ads for inductive heating devices for use on bolts/nuts. It's better than a
torch, especially near a gas tank!
 

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Discussion Starter #208
WD40 is not really designed to be used like that. Kroil is designed to free up corroded fasteners.
It's the best stuff I've used, but it still isn't great. I hate working on corroded stuff. I try to put
anti-seize on every bolt/nut when I have stuff apart. Even exhaust fasteners, but you have
to use the copper-based anti-seize for those because of the heat.

I've seen some ads for inductive heating devices for use on bolts/nuts. It's better than a
torch, especially near a gas tank!
True story, theres definitely better stuff to use than WD40 but its all I had in my garage. I'm in the same boat - anti-sieze everywhere lol but these poor camber arms never got any anti seize and now have gone 3 winters without being touched.

I've used oxy acetylene torches many times back at my fam's shop - alot closer to gas tanks than this camber arm too lol. I'm not particularly worried about a small hand held propane torch and the location of the camber arm.
 

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Thanks man! I'm actually not entirely sure where my camber is. I'm guessing -2.5 based on where I set my UCA camber kit to VS where it was when I got them from Tony (I bought this camber kit used from him) I think he was running north of 3* and I'm a adjusted a little bit in from where he had them when I received them so -2.5* is my guess. I'll report back with specs when I get it aligned.

I was actually worried I'd run out of threaded body to increase preload but I felt above the collars and theres plenty of threads left. I do like my ride stiff. If anything I wish my springs were a little stiffer. The roads here are just so bad that with soft springs I'd be banging my UCA on the shock tower every 10 seconds. It still happens often enough as it is.

Were the 12k and 7k springs the same height? Never thought they'd be able to be switched. I've never seen those thrust bearings for coils before! Lord have mercy I wish I had those before. Took some serious grunt to get the spring seats broken loose, especially on the rear since I haven't adjusted them in 3+ years. Next time I play with my coils those are definitely going on. Do you have a link to the ones you used? Are they the unsealed ones in your pic? Great idea here!

Update: went to the store to get a 1 1/16" or ~27mm box wrench for my camber kit and wouldnt you know it's too big. I measured the opening of my crescent wrench at what I thought was ~27mm but apparently it's a 26mm so I'm stuck waiting til tonight to get a different wrench. I hope 2 days of WD 40 soaking helped kill some of that corrosion. If not i'll be ordering a small propane torch.
There actually was a note in the thread I based my spring swap on about using adjustable UCAs for camber control and the likelyhood of beating them against the shock towers. With that said, increasing preload gives the shock more space to travel. More travel means an increased ability to beat your shock tower with your UCA. Turning your damping stiffer and/or reducing your preload somewhat is the only way to combat that issue, short of raising the ride height. By reducing your preload and therefore shock travel, you'll have to find the line between banging the UCA or bottoming out the shock.

Interestingly enough the rear springs are shorter, by two inches I think. Or maybe just one... I can't remember now. I do remember they are shorter thou. I had at one point dug up a page on tein's site that gave a full component list of whatever kit you wanted... Can't seem to find that now. ?

Besides the difference in height, the front springs have a 65mm inside diameter, and the rears are 70mm. So moving the rear springs up front means I also moved the rear rubber isolators, plastic shims and rear springs perches to the front. 65mm is interchangable with a 2.5in spring, so the front hardware that was displaced moved to the rear and met HyperCo 2.5in ID, 275# 12" springs. Ended up with these because I'm frugal as hell, found these NIB for way less than brand new and I determined I could make 12" springs fit. The original goal was 2.5in ID, 250-275#, 10" from Tein, Eibach or HyperCo.
Here is the rear assembled but not preloaded:
IMG_20200314_175537~2.jpg


All credit for the Flex Z surgery should be given to BROlando from (that other site). I took all his hard work and ideas (there is a ton) and just modified it to my liking. Shorter springs can definitely be used if you utilize his idea of polyurethane spacers.
Here is (most of) the link to his thread: https://a____z___.com/forums/1g-tsx-tires-wheels-suspension-130/my-tein-flex-z-experience-can-i-make-them-ride-nice-966137/ fill in the blanks. The second half of post #18 contains the info I used to do this, but post 1-19 contain a ton of info about the Flex Z.

Also, this was my favorite part of the whole thread:
real_damping_level_7e92f6c4c8beadccd53314a761cb000ffb31d992.jpg


Before this, I had grown to accept the way the car rode, but now I realize just how much I was accommodating the springs being too stiff. The best example I can think of is before changing the springs, I couldn't push the car hard through any turn I didn't know perfectly, or any turn I knew had any kind of bump in it. One unsettling bump while near the limit and the car would have skipped or maybe even slid. It wasn't as predictable as it should have been. Now, the ride is still firm, but it is also compliant. I am much more confident the suspension will keep my tires on the road at all times. I can still firm up 3-4 clicks in both front and back and be confident the car is sticking to the pavement. They're set where they are mostly for comfort, as I have a much smaller and more nimble secondary car I get my best driving joy from now. I couldn't even tell you what my damper settings are at the moment. I just do it by feel rather than counting clicks...

Yes, the thrust bearings pictured are the standard type. The bearing itself between two washers (I guess they're technically "races"). Since the F/R springs are two different IDs, two different sets are needed. I'll post that info shortly. They are worth every penny. No more fighting to set a significant preload, no more bashing your knuckles inside the wheel well when you slip off the perch while pushing with all you got. It's a mandatory add on for any coilovers I own moving forward.

Update: Thrust bearing info:
65mm ID, 90mm OD for original front springs:
70mm ID, 95mm OD for original rear springs:
Figures that one of those costs twice as much as the other right now.... But all you really need is the part numbers, NTB6590 and NTB7095, then if you're picky about where the steel comes from, make sure they come from a reputable manufacturer. There are lots of really cheap Chinese options. Sometimes that's ok, but for me, not when a bearing is involved.
I would recommend using a very thick, tacky grease with these since they will be exposed to elements.
Also, the JEGS sealed kind I mentioned:
I think they only have them in 2.5" ID, but I really like the idea. Enough to have emailed them to inquire where they are made.... You guessed it.
 

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Discussion Starter #210 (Edited)
There actually was a note in the thread I based my spring swap on about using adjustable UCAs for camber control and the likelyhood of beating them against the shock towers. With that said, increasing preload gives the shock more space to travel. More travel means an increased ability to beat your shock tower with your UCA. Turning your damping stiffer and/or reducing your preload somewhat is the only way to combat that issue, short of raising the ride height. By reducing your preload and therefore shock travel, you'll have to find the line between banging the UCA or bottoming out the shock.

Interestingly enough the rear springs are shorter, by two inches I think. Or maybe just one... I can't remember now. I do remember they are shorter thou. I had at one point dug up a page on tein's site that gave a full component list of whatever kit you wanted... Can't seem to find that now. ?

Besides the difference in height, the front springs have a 65mm inside diameter, and the rears are 70mm. So moving the rear springs up front means I also moved the rear rubber isolators, plastic shims and rear springs perches to the front. 65mm is interchangable with a 2.5in spring, so the front hardware that was displaced moved to the rear and met HyperCo 2.5in ID, 275# 12" springs. Ended up with these because I'm frugal as hell, found these NIB for way less than brand new and I determined I could make 12" springs fit. The original goal was 2.5in ID, 250-275#, 10" from Tein, Eibach or HyperCo.
Here is the rear assembled but not preloaded:


All credit for the Flex Z surgery should be given to BROlando from (that other site). I took all his hard work and ideas (there is a ton) and just modified it to my liking. Shorter springs can definitely be used if you utilize his idea of polyurethane spacers.
Here is (most of) the link to his thread: https://a____z___.com/forums/1g-tsx-tires-wheels-suspension-130/my-tein-flex-z-experience-can-i-make-them-ride-nice-966137/ fill in the blanks. The second half of post #18 contains the info I used to do this, but post 1-19 contain a ton of info about the Flex Z.

Also, this was my favorite part of the whole thread:
View attachment 46972

Before this, I had grown to accept the way the car rode, but now I realize just how much I was accommodating the springs being too stiff. The best example I can think of is before changing the springs, I couldn't push the car hard through any turn I didn't know perfectly, or any turn I knew had any kind of bump in it. One unsettling bump while near the limit and the car would have skipped or maybe even slid. It wasn't as predictable as it should have been. Now, the ride is still firm, but it is also compliant. I am much more confident the suspension will keep my tires on the road at all times. I can still firm up 3-4 clicks in both front and back and be confident the car is sticking to the pavement. They're set where they are mostly for comfort, as I have a much smaller and more nimble secondary car I get my best driving joy from now. I couldn't even tell you what my damper settings are at the moment. I just do it by feel rather than counting clicks...

Yes, the thrust bearings pictured are the standard type. The bearing itself between two washers (I guess they're technically "races"). Since the F/R springs are two different IDs, two different sets are needed. I'll post that info shortly. They are worth every penny. No more fighting to set a significant preload, no more bashing your knuckles inside the wheel well when you slip off the perch while pushing with all you got. It's a mandatory add on for any coilovers I own moving forward.

Update: Thrust bearing info:
65mm ID, 90mm OD for original front springs:
[/URL][/URL]
70mm ID, 95mm OD for original rear springs:
[/URL][/URL]
Figures that one of those costs twice as much as the other right now.... But all you really need is the part numbers, NTB6590 and NTB7095, then if you're picky about where the steel comes from, make sure they come from a reputable manufacturer. There are lots of really cheap Chinese options. Sometimes that's ok, but for me, not when a bearing is involved.
I would recommend using a very thick, tacky grease with these since they will be exposed to elements.
Also, the JEGS sealed kind I mentioned:
I think they only have them in 2.5" ID, but I really like the idea. Enough to have emailed them to inquire where they are made.... You guessed it.
Great info here! I remember reading that thread years ago but have since forgotten all about it. Great to re-read again, thanks for the share. For me, as often as I'm borderline bottoming out on these shitty streets I think I'd actually rather bang the UCA on the shock tower VS fully bottom out my dampers. If I hit the bump stops as often as I've banged my shock towers I think my dampers would be toast. If anything it's like a solid bump stop lol.

Also, that thread is referring to the adjustable ball joint style UCA which def makes you loose a ton of clearance. I have the hardrace UCA's and while im sure I lost a small amount of clearance over OEM UCA's the adjustability is a must have for me.

In reading that thread again I feel like I'm probably well above the amount of preload he used, which at this point might be making me hit my UCA on the shock tower more than it needs to. Idk. I haven't driven it enough at the current height to know. Good to know tho if I'm banging shock towers left and right I can pull some preload out.

I also forgot about his poly spring cushions - I had meant to do that if I ever took these coils apart - he's right the metal on metal causes paint chips and rust.

You're right on the thrust bearings. Definitely going to get some of those for the next time I adjust my suspension - you have no idea on the knuckle bashing lmao.

Guessing those Jegs bearings were made in China?
 

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So far I don't have any rust or paint chipping, but I also don't have to deal with snow or salted roads. I do find it odd that Tein provided a rubber isolators for the rear coils but the fronts are metal on metal. I now have the isolators in front with the rest of the rear specific parts, but left the rears metal to metal at the top of the coil. Maybe I'll add some kind of isolator back there later.

I hated slipping off the spring perches while the coils were in the car. Skinning my knuckles in one of the dirtiest places in the car was never fun. Pretty sure I slipped hard enough to headbutt a fender at least a couple of times too ?‍♂
First time I increased preload with the bearings in was nearly orgasmic. I could hardly believe how smooth and low effort it was.

Yeah the JEGS are Chinese unfortunately.

Here's a pic of a front with the 7k spring, hardware, and thrust bearing in the car:
IMG_20200401_140630~2.jpg

I do wish there was a way to keep that bearing sealed from the elements, but it is what it is.
 

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Discussion Starter #212
Nice, be fortunate you don't have to deal with salt and slush and snow. It's awful for everything that's not coated. I chose to wear mecahnix gloves when adjusting preload to save the skin on my knuckles lol. But oh yeah I definitely bashed my face into the quarter panel on multiple occasions.

I'm thinking I'm gonna need sealed bearings. I could smother them in grease but the winter is gonna tear those up. I'd like to avoid chinese ones if possible - do you know of any other sealed ones? If not I suppose I'd compromise and go with them anyways.
 

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Sorry, but LOL on the head-butting the quarter panel. :D

I have two ideas for decreasing adjustment friction, instead of the thrust bearings.
1. Use a single ring plate that is DLC coated (Diamond-Like-Carbon). This is a modern
technique for greatly reducing friction on engine and transmission internals.
2. Use a thin piece of PTFE (Teflon) between the spring and perch. This material is
widely known to be very low friction. You can get a sheet from McMaster-Carr and
cut some rings out of it. Easy and cheap.

Also, it seems apparent that the integrated bump stops in those coil-overs are not
adequate for the configuration. Feel free to add an OEM bump stop. Here is an
example. The bump stops that came with the TL A-Spec suspension had super
long ones in the rear. I didn't use them at first because my Bilstein dampers came
with bump stops, but they were half the length. I would occasionally bottom out in
the rear, so I swapped in the long bump stops and no longer had a problem. The
bump stop absorbs energy and decelerates the damper. Much better than a
hard limit imposed by the UCA hitting the shock tower.

46974
 

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Discussion Starter #214
Haha gotta risk it for the biscuit.

Teflon would likely work too but at this point I'm very intrigued by the idea of using sealed thrust bearings.

I honestly have no idea what the bump stops look like on these coils. I've never had them all apart. Shandalo did you happen to see the bump stops when you had yours apart? Do you think adding that bump stop above would be a viable option? Is the part number on that 52722-TK4-A01? TL/TSX rear bump stop?
 

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J-Spec
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52722-TK4-A01 is 2nd gen TSX and 4th gen TL rear.

I measured a number of bump stops:
52722-SZ3-004: 4.7"
52722-SV1-A02: 4.2"
52722-TK4-A01: 2.9"
TL A-spec rear: 4.8"
Bilstein B6: 2.4"

I'm guessing you probably don't have the original bump stops from the stock dampers?
Those are part number 52722-SDA-A01. Probably a little shorter than 52722-TK4-A01.

McMaster-Carr probably has some thrust bearings. Although I doubt you will find any
with a stainless outer race, so they will rust. I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble here
in the Midwest. The PTFE should do the trick, especially if you grease the surface that
contacts the perch. If you use Superlube, that's a synthetic grease that has PTFE in it.
Should work quite well.
 

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I never did locate any other sealed thrust bearings besides the ones on JEGS. With that said... I really like the idea of PTFE! There are a few applications for it in my field and it works fantastically. In fact, if anyone took it upon themselves to make batch runs of PTFE rings cut to size for a reasonable price... I'd probably buy a set, for longevity.

I've also never looked inside the shock bellows to check out the bump stop on these coils. I hardly ever bottom out in this car (higher ride, function over form here...) so it hasn't been a concern of mine. Ironically unrelated.... I just replaced all the bump stops on my MR2 last weekend >.>

A longer bump stop sounds like a great way to save your UCAs and shock towers. At the very least, significantly diminish the force before that contact happens. Brock has provided a nice list of bump stops.... I would recommend measuring the OD of the Tein shock pistons first before buying any of those thou. I ran into that issue last weekend with the 2.... OEM bump stops fit on my rear koni struts, but not on the front ones. Had to get creative.
 

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Discussion Starter #217
Thanks for the part numbers Brock. Bump stops will have to wait for the next time I pull the coils off and add them, PTFE, and a poly upper seat for the fronts.I think you're right though - any needle bearing I use would have to be stainless or coated or they'd rust solid in one winter. If there aren't any easily accessible in stainless I don't think it'd be ideal for me.

That PTFE and superlube combo sounds interesting. Going to get some of that SuberLube for sure. I'm looking at PTFE sheets now, what thickness do you think would be needed? McMaster-Carr

Thinking 1/8". Also trying to think how I'd cut them out up here. I think this would be a project for back at my family's shop.

Shandalo - if I get a piece of PTFE I'll likely get a big enough one to do at least 8 rings if I can swing it.

Well last night I went back down to try and get this camber arm popped loose - it's not budging. I wasn't able to find a 26mm box wrench anywhere locally and with the lockdown slowing shipping speeds down it'd be a week before it got here if I order one. I decided to get a torch and see what I could make happen. Even with the torch and every bit of leverage I have I still couldnt get it to break loose.

So, plan-b. I'm just going to go get a ball joint separator today and pop the ball joing and adjust that side of the arm out. Not ideal, but it'll work all the same.

I also popped the front tires off and measured the distance from the spring perches to the bottom of the shock body and compared to the 8.1" the Tein manual calls for when setting the coils up. I was just over 8.5". 10mm of added preload per that thread you shared is about .4" so I was pleasantly surprised to see I was right on with BROlando per his thread.

I also did my best to eyeball the toe out front so I could at least drive the car without tearing the tires up if I need to. I made one final tweek to the ride height on the drivers side and then got it back on the ground. I adjusted my dampening settings on the coils and to my surprise I must have turned them way down at some point and left them turned down. I wanna say from a road trip I took to Nashville OVER A YEAR AGO. I went ahead and turned them to full stiff then backed out 5 clicks and then went for a drive.

WOW!! I don't know how long I've had the dampening turned down too soft for but cranking it back up made a huge difference. I went and drove on a rode that ALWAYS causes UCA's to hit the shock towers and to my surprise the car soaked everything up without any bangs.

I thought at my height/specs I'd still have rubbing on the outer tire to the inner fender but I must have added enough camber to avoid it cause I didn't hear or see any signs of rubbing/scrubbage on the front. The rear passenger side is scrubbing a little on the QP - actually pry where the bumper mounts to the QP if I were to guess. May have to add a hair more camber back in.

Picking up a ball joint tool today and then hopefully finishing the rear end on this thing. Here's where she sits at the moment: (don't mind the rear toe, it's a mile off)



 

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Someone just turn 30?

I was going to order a couple of these the next time I place a McMaster order:
After you guys talking about the adjustment difficulty, I wanted to make myself
some PTFE washers. I have a Ground Control spring kit that I'm going to install
tomorrow probably. I don't expect to do much adjusting, but wanted to make
sure it was easy to do.

I've had plastic water-jet cut before, which would be ideal. If you guys
let me know how many washers you want and the OD and ID, then I can
probably do everything at once at a reasonable price.

I'll hold off on ordering any material until I know what you guys want.
 

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Discussion Starter #219
Yeah, it was my bday the 29th. My girl made that sign and put it out in the median in front of my apartment lol

A water jet would be more than ideal lol. Here I was thinking I might be able to pull it off with some holesaw bits. If you'd be willing to take this project on I am absolutely down to throw down on it.

Shandalo - fronts are ID 65mm OD 90mm and rears are 70mm ID 95mm OD right?
 

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Well then, Happy B-day.

No problem at all. It's easy and I've been planning on having some other parts water-jet cut too.
I'll have to check with the place to see if they are working.
 
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