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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Back to the Type S discussion....

I was just checking out the Japanese/European Accord specs...

Their "basic" Accord has a 2.0L engine that puts out 155HP/140lbft (base RSX engine?).

The Accord Type-S has a 2.4L engine that puts out 190HP/163lbft (TSX engine?).

In Japan, they have the Euro R, which has the 2.0L engine, but it has been tuned to put out 220HP/152lbft (potential for RSX Type-R?).

The TSX is rated at 200HP/166lbft.

That would mean that a TSX Type-S would be ~250-280HP and 167-180lbft.
 

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Good assumption, but that is essentially what the tl is supposed to be capable of, so they wouldnt do that to the tsx, and on the type s subject acura has always had their type r gsr or type s be their premium fast model. They dont want to do anything to hurt that market and target range. Honda/Acura wont make another move on the tsx until they see the success of the evo and the wrx, there is a new market out now for four door pocket rockets and factory turbos, so until then we will be stuck with our tsx, no type s or type r.

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
EURO_R said:
Good assumption, but that is essentially what the tl is supposed to be capable of, so they wouldnt do that to the tsx, and on the type s subject acura has always had their type r gsr or type s be their premium fast model. They dont want to do anything to hurt that market and target range. Honda/Acura wont make another move on the tsx until they see the success of the evo and the wrx, there is a new market out now for four door pocket rockets and factory turbos, so until then we will be stuck with our tsx, no type s or type r.

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Good point. My guess is that a TSX Type-S will have numbers near the lower end of the ranges I gave.

It will definitely be a year until we see anything, since they limited production of the TSX to 15,000.... they wanted to see how it was going to do. It has been a success so far, so I'd expect to see Type-S info to start circulating soon from Acura.
 

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EURO_R said:
Good assumption, but that is essentially what the tl is supposed to be capable of, so they wouldnt do that to the tsx, and on the type s subject acura has always had their type r gsr or type s be their premium fast model. They dont want to do anything to hurt that market and target range. Honda/Acura wont make another move on the tsx until they see the success of the evo and the wrx, there is a new market out now for four door pocket rockets and factory turbos, so until then we will be stuck with our tsx, no type s or type r.

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I agree Acura loves to copy other car companys and will for sure make a car to duplicate the Evo/wrx/neon they will make a car with turbo in the next 2 years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
EURO_R said:
Good assumption, but that is essentially what the tl is supposed to be capable of, so they wouldnt do that to the tsx, and on the type s subject acura has always had their type r gsr or type s be their premium fast model. They dont want to do anything to hurt that market and target range. Honda/Acura wont make another move on the tsx until they see the success of the evo and the wrx, there is a new market out now for four door pocket rockets and factory turbos, so until then we will be stuck with our tsx, no type s or type r.

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The Evo and WRX aren't even direct competitors of the TSX, so I doubt if looking at the markets for those cars will make any difference to Acura/Honda. It's the BMW 325i that they have their crosshairs set on.... the car that all entry-level luxury sedans compare against.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
tsxclub said:
I agree Acura loves to copy other car companys and will for sure make a car to duplicate the Evo/wrx/neon they will make a car with turbo in the next 2 years.
I really doubt it. Acura/Honda has been able to make very competitive performance with the use of VTEC, not turbo. AWD may be an option, as BMW offers AWD on the 3-series.

If they really wanted to go up against those cars, they would sell it as a Honda and throw the S2000 engine into a Civic.
 

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You ar missing the point it is not who they are competing against or what kind of car they are trying to match, the buyer decides that (he/she looks at the types of car he/she wants then looks at the market) companies do that on their own. It is the majority target range the people who actually buy the car, the same people that would most likely be buying a type s version (which is what this thread is about not the tsx) of the tsx are looking for hands down preformance of speed and handeling and overall comfort. And with in the price range people can acheive this in both the evo and the wrx sti for under 30,000 and they also acheive comfort but also they have the ability to adhere to their families needs. So u dont look at who the company is competing against i.e. (a4, 325i,is300 which im all aware of) you look at who is buyin the car.

SO i appreciate your rebutle but u have to understand that it isnt all about AWD turbo it is about who is buying the car and how they can get everything the want for a reasonable price.

And a civic with an s2000 motor that is just proposterous, then they would try to beat out their top model roadster at a cheaper price, that is just plain inefficiant. Why put one of the best engines ever made hands down (most horsepower per liter) in one of the simplest cars ever made.

Just my 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
EURO_R said:
You ar missing the point it is not who they are competing against or what kind of car they are trying to match, the buyer decides that (he/she looks at the types of car he/she wants then looks at the market) companies do that on their own. It is the majority target range the people who actually buy the car, the same people that would most likely be buying a type s version (which is what this thread is about not the tsx) of the tsx are looking for hands down preformance of speed and handeling and overall comfort. And with in the price range people can acheive this in both the evo and the wrx sti for under 30,000 and they also acheive comfort but also they have the ability to adhere to their families needs. So u dont look at who the company is competing against i.e. (a4, 325i,is300 which im all aware of) you look at who is buyin the car.

SO i appreciate your rebutle but u have to understand that it isnt all about AWD turbo it is about who is buying the car and how they can get everything the want for a reasonable price.

And a civic with an s2000 motor that is just proposterous, then they would try to beat out their top model roadster at a cheaper price, that is just plain inefficiant. Why put one of the best engines ever made hands down (most horsepower per liter) in one of the simplest cars ever made.

Just my 2 cents.
Acura has blantantly stated that the TSX was designed to go up against the BMW 3-series. Sure, in the end buyers will determine what car falls into what market, but the price, options and performance of the car will help dictate that.

If car buyers were cross-shopping cars just based on price, then I'd say you were correct, but in many cases this is not the point. The WRX and Evo cannot come close to the TSX in terms of luxury... even fully loaded. If they make a TSX Type-S, it would be going up against the 330i or C320, not the Evo or the WRX, so the viability of that market would have no bearing on the success of the TSX Type-S.

Why would having a +200 HP Civic be preposterous? If Honda wanted to make a car to compete against the Evo or WRX, they could make a Civic with an S2000 engine (or at least a slightly de-tuned version of it). The price would be a few thousand less than the S2000 (low $30s).

The S2000 is a roadster, so it wouldn't even get the same buyers as this hypothetical Civic, and Honda wouldn't be worried about losing those sales. People don't buy cars purely by performance, they buy the whole package.

A couple/sedan with equal/superior performance than a roadster from the same car company can and does exist.

And a TSX Type-S wouldn't hurt TL sales either, as the TL will still be a bigger car than the TSX... much like the BMW 3-series doesn't affect the 5-series sales.
 

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i dont deny that is in direct competition with the 3 series, u just need to understand the tsx is a bridge that filled the gap between the rsx and the tl.

and if that civic is such a great idea why havent they done it yet, keeping in mind they already have the rsx and civic si both around 200 hp, no need for the s2000 motor

no it wouldnt hurt the tl but it could compare with the type s version of the tl, and why would they want to flood they line with all these type s versions, what is next an MDX type s, or maybe an accord si.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
EURO_R said:
i dont deny that is in direct competition with the 3 series, u just need to understand the tsx is a bridge that filled the gap between the rsx and the tl.

and if that civic is such a great idea why havent they done it yet, keeping in mind they already have the rsx and civic si both around 200 hp, no need for the s2000 motor

no it wouldnt hurt the tl but it could compare with the type s version of the tl, and why would they want to flood they line with all these type s versions, what is next an MDX type s, or maybe an accord si.
Yes, I am well aware of where the TSX sits in the Acura lineup.

One of the reasons why Honda has not released a Civic that can compete with the WRX and the Evo is because Honda doesn't have an existing rally racecar to use as a "model". Both the WRX and Evo were rally racecars before they were available for street use. So, there would require some time to design and develop this model. In addition, Civics are selling better than either of those models, with tuners modifying them to compete with the WRX and Evo.

The only reason I threw out the Civic with an S2000 engine was as an example of what Honda could do if they wanted to compete directly with those two car models. A TSX Type-S would not compete in that market.

The Civic Si is only available as a 2-door hatchback model with only 160HP. They have never offered a Civic with anywhere close to 200HP. The RSX Type-S has 200HP, but is only offered as a 2-door hatchback. Both the Evo and WRX are 4-door sedans.

Acura has offered sporty versions for many of their cars... the Integra had the GS-R and Type-S, and the RSX and TL both have Type-S versions. The TSX Type-S would have the same type of buyers that the Integra GS-R sedan had.

An MDX Type-S would probably never be offered, as the performance the MDX offers currently is competitive with other luxury SUVs in its class. In addition, there's not much of a market for performance-oriented mid-size luxury SUVs.

The TL Type-S and TSX Type-S wouldn't be comparable. The TL Type-S is bigger and offers a V6 that currently puts out 260HP. A new TL Type-S would have even more HP. A TSX Type-S would make somewhere around 225-250HP.

I'm not saying that there for sure is going to be a TSX Type-S, but you cannot say that there isn't a market for it nor can you say that it couldn't co-exist with the other vehicles in Acura's lineup.
 

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sjlee said:
The Civic Si is only available as a 2-door hatchback model with only 160HP. They have never offered a Civic with anywhere close to 200HP. The RSX Type-S has 200HP, but is only offered as a 2-door hatchback. Both the Evo and WRX are 4-door sedans.
Next years model honda will offer the civic si with 199 hp :D
 

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Does everyone believe that Acura will come out with an S-type for the TSX eventually. Wouldn't a boost of power take away from what Acura is selling the TSX as? If another 40 or so hp was added, it seems like the image that is being created to sell the TSX would be ruined.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Equ222 said:
Does everyone believe that Acura will come out with an S-type for the TSX eventually. Wouldn't a boost of power take away from what Acura is selling the TSX as? If another 40 or so hp was added, it seems like the image that is being created to sell the TSX would be ruined.
Hmmm, I'm not sure what Acura is doing with the future models. It's starting to look like they are doing away with the "Type-S" versions. The RSX Type-S was introduced the same time as the base RSX, but since then, the TSX has been introduced and soon the new TL will be out. There has been no news yet on a Type-S version of either.

Perhaps Acura has decided to "clean up" their model line.
 

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Did anyone else hear about the Possiblilty of a TSX A-spec?? I heard this from some sources at the SEMA autoshow.....I don't know the stats on it, does anyone have a clue what I'm talkin about?
 
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