Yup, I see you found the article! Doesn't seem like too much work. I'll be doing this in the next 2 weeks after I find the last but of info needed.

Wish I knew what minimum offset wheel would be needed to clear the calipers. I'm hoping my 17x9 +45 RPF1s can clear.

 

Post a DIY & review while your at it :tu2:

 

I've had my TL-S Brembos for over a year. I have yet to put them on. One of these days I will tackle that task, but I need more research on the right rotor for the TSX. For now here is something that will help this thread.

The s2000 rotor puts the alignment of the rotor perfectly centered with the caliper. Its downfall is that the Brembo pads will stick out of the rotor because the rotor isn't big enough. Some people just grind their pads and shape them to fit. All you need is a 6mm spacer to clear the oem wheels off the Brembos if you are suing oem wheels. If you are using aftermarket wheels with enough offset you dint need the spacer.

The TL-S rotor alignment is slightly different when using the TSX oem knuckle so you need to shim the back of the rotor to align it with the caliper. On top of that you have to use a 6mm spacer to clear the Brembos if using oem wheels. The upside is that the pads will fit the rotor like they should and wont stick out because the TL-S rotor is bigger than the s2000 one.

Another option that I need to find is off other brands of cars. The exact Brembo caliper used on the TL-S is used on STI's, GM, and Ford cars and many of them use out bolt pattern. I dont want to use the s2000 rotor and have extra pad area sticking out. I dont want to back space the TL-S rotor but I want its size. So I need a caliper with the spacing of the s2000 but with the size of the TL-S. Since all the brands mentioned above use the bigger TL-S sizing, its a matter of finding out which one has the S2000 spacing

 

The s2000 rotor puts the alignment of the rotor perfectly centered with the caliper. Its downfall is that the Brembo pads will stick out of the rotor because the rotor isn't big enough. Some people just grind their pads and shape them to fit. All you need is a 6mm spacer to clear the oem wheels off the Brembos if you are suing oem wheels. If you are using aftermarket wheels with enough offset you dint need the spacer.
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I can almost 100% guarantee that the RPF's will not clear in a +45 offset. The STI has a similar caliper and it can't clear a +45. I think you will need a +35.

if the above is true, then im in the clear. I think our tsx wheel offset is +55. The TL-S oem wheel is a +45.

i have had issues clearing brembos with RPF1s and NT03s on my old Evo. so im well aware of that. BREMBO does use diff profile calipers per application. so who knows...

 

^ great input bardi, I've been reading about the rotor clearance issue on 8thcivic. What do you think of the DC5R calipers?

I'll post links to those threads when I get home.

 

DIY Link: being installed on a 8th gen civic

Acura TL-S Brembo calipers upgrade for 8th generation Civic Si

 

Man I'm dying to do this to my car. A nice set of freshly powder coated Brembo brakes behind my RPF1's would look sweet!!

 

In response to AWOC's post
I found this catalog for rotors and drums, i only got up to Chevrolet before my eyes started to hurt.

http://www.duraintl.com/pdf/Drum-Rotor_Catalog.pdf

 

I'd like to figure this out too.

I have a set of TL Type-S calipers on the way. Hopefully there is an off-the-shelf rotor solution that has the correct hat height, and rotor diameter, to work with the TSX stock knuckle and TL type-S brembo calipers. I'll do some research too and post what I find here.

-Ed

 

^ Great guys keep us posted.

 

really hard to find stock rotor like this...

I am having a hard time finding a stock rotor that even comes close to these specs. The main issue is hat height. It sounds like we need something around 40mm but that is rather hard to come by.

-Ed

 

I am having a hard time finding a stock rotor that even comes close to these specs. The main issue is hat height. It sounds like we need something around 40mm but that is rather hard to come by.

-Ed

been asking around, sounds like the only way is for custom rotors. Im just going to use the S2000 rotors shave the pads a little and use a 10mm spacer to clear the calipers.

 

I think the best solution would be a custom caliper mounting bracket, to relocate the caliper 6mm+ backwards (towards the motor), and reposition it slightly further up/around. E.g. instead of being at 9 o'clock it would be centered between 9 and 10 o'clock on a clock-face, and 6mm further deeper towards the middle of the car.

This would solve 3 things:

Wheel clearance to the caliper
Could use stock TL-type-S rotors
Could use stock mounting bolts (TL-S bolts to bolt caliper to bracket, TSX bolts to bolt bracket to knuckle.)

Will see if I can draw it up or mock it up in wood/metal/etc., as a proof of concept. awoc/Bardi would be better at that I am sure (him being a machinist).

It would be somewhat similiar to the caliper spacing brackets that fastbrakes.com uses for spacing honda calipers out radially to allow use of bigger rotors when putting say Integra/accord calipers on a civic and using an 11" rotor.

-Ed

 

Offset is not what determines if the wheel will hit the caliper. It's also a function of wheel design. The DC5R has Brembos and the stock wheel offset is 60 mm.

 

offset, et al

sure, offset and wheel design both play a role. I think spoke design is probably the biggest factor. TL type-S has 17x8 wheels with +45 offset, but the spokes are all near the exterior of the wheel, likely by design re: brake clearance.

still haven't found a rotor yet with the specs we need. The best I have found is about 312mm with 42.xmm hat height (but wrong bolt pattern).

 

Ed,

I like your idea of the caliper bracket. I want to use the oem knuckle along with oem wheels. With winters here being a pain, I need a setup that will let me swap to oem wheels quickly. I am not a wheel spacer or extended lug type of guy, so I need to investigate this. I have the brembos with new pads, and all I need is some TL-S rotors to start the bracket.

 

Keep us updated with the bracket bardi.

 

Just a thought. AWOC since you have access to machinery, why not just mill down 3mm from the caliper bracket and 3mm off of the caliper?

 

Agreed!

Bardi -

I am totally with you on those priorities. Easy to swap wheels is a must, working with OEM 17"s is almost a must too. Using some sort of stock rotor would be ideal also.

The caliper bracket, if possible, will solve all the problems.

I'll donate to the effort and commit to buying a pair of the brackets if/when you get to prototyping them. Hell, I'd even pay for the TL-s rotors if you want.

The question is is there enough clearance to rotate the caliper to a new position and still have it bolt up to a bracket without modification.

re: milling 3mm off each: that would be possible but non-ideal. It limits it to those with a machine shop, and also weakens both parts.

Ideally a single bracket could be fabbed up, and then either sold at a modest profit to recoup the efforts (Bardi is running his own engineering company... ;-), or perhaps the design donated as a public service to others who want to do the same swap. Or, someone like fastbrakes.com (Brian) might be interested in buying/making/selling the design.

Worst-case scenario, it should be possible to put together a combination that would work with TL-s wheels even if not with OEM TSX wheels. (TL-s are 17x8 +45 but with spokes mostly on the face of the wheel...probably for clearance).

let me know if I can help,

-Ed

 

Milling is out of the question because I agree it will only be available to those who have access to a machine shop which is not conviniant at all.

I myself am willing to donate to the bracket prototype so we can have more options of bbks for the TSX community.

Bardi you got a PM.

Jay

Bardi -

I am totally with you on those priorities. Easy to swap wheels is a must, working with OEM 17"s is almost a must too. Using some sort of stock rotor would be ideal also.

The caliper bracket, if possible, will solve all the problems.

I'll donate to the effort and commit to buying a pair of the brackets if/when you get to prototyping them. Hell, I'd even pay for the TL-s rotors if you want.

The question is is there enough clearance to rotate the caliper to a new position and still have it bolt up to a bracket without modification.

re: milling 3mm off each: that would be possible but non-ideal. It limits it to those with a machine shop, and also weakens both parts.

Ideally a single bracket could be fabbed up, and then either sold at a modest profit to recoup the efforts (Bardi is running his own engineering company... ;-), or perhaps the design donated as a public service to others who want to do the same swap. Or, someone like fastbrakes.com (Brian) might be interested in buying/making/selling the design.

Worst-case scenario, it should be possible to put together a combination that would work with TL-s wheels even if not with OEM TSX wheels. (TL-s are 17x8 +45 but with spokes mostly on the face of the wheel...probably for clearance).

let me know if I can help,

-Ed

 

milling: yes it weakens the part, we are only talking about .118in
while i agree that not everyone has access to a machine shop, the alternative is to swap one at a time, or have a few sets ready to go. We all buy our own calipers, all he needs is to have a caliper mounts. So if AWOC is willing to do the work for a fee, it might be a viable option

 

weakening the part in a brake system just seems wrong to me. I'd rather swap to TL-s knuckles than deal with milling, personally.

These calipers mount directly to the knuckle, though - there's no bracket like with a stock sliding caliper. So you'd need to mill both the caliper itself, and the knuckles (which would require pulling them off the car of course). Plus, if you went that route, also have to drill out the mounting ears to accept the larger bolts, or use nutserts in the caliper.

And, probably have to use 6mm shorter bolts, since these likely are fully threaded into the caliper, so taking 6mm off the mounting surfaces means the stock bolts will be 6mm too long...

all of which point to an adapter bracket as the best solution. barring that, switching to TL knuckles is the next easiest method.

It would be great to be able to put together a BBK with stock parts and a simple adapter, if possible. The market for that would be huge. It would probably also bolt right up to other Honda/acuras also.

-Ed

 

If it fits on the cl9, it'll fit on the cu2, I am way interested in a big brake kit that uses oem brake calipers.

 

dty3 I would suggest you look into tear out strength. It is proportional to material thickness. Removing that much would lover the safety factor of the part and lower its cycle loading life cycle. I am confident it would work just fine with the shear forces involved, but for how long and how save? Also milling the knuckle straight is going to be a challenge. How would you hold it straight on a vice? Another factor that I know of personally from friends that are Acura techs is that the TL-S brembos are notorious for stripped threads. The bolt that is used to mount them on has relatively fine pitch threads. The aluminum the calipers are made out of is crap, so it is easy to strip. Less material here would not be beneficial.


Currently looking for Evo 03-06 rotors or 07-08 TL-S. If anyone has one IM me please .

 

Sucks to hear that the caliper threads are notorious for stripping... >:-/ that's not good. It's too bad those don't have steel inserts or something. Could always add them I suppose. One thing I was thinking of if/when it becomes an option is to use nutserts (e.g. helicoils(?), etc.) to step down the thread pitch/diameter so that stock TSX bolts could bolt into the calipers. That would prevent the need for drilling out the holes in the knuckle. Might prevent thread stripping too, hopefully. Not sure if they make nutsert/thread inserts in those combinations of sizes or even what those sizes are yet (probably 14mm fine and 12mm fine... or extra-fine, knowing honda... e.g x 1.0mm or 1.25mm ).

-Ed

 

I got my 3 Brembo calipers off a tech friend at Acura. 2 of them have stripped holes 1 has a stuck bleeder nipple. I couldnt refuse the 3 for $100 :laugh:. What I plan to do for my personal ones is to drill and tap for bigger threads and bigger bolts. Easy to do just takes 10 min. Helicoils are typically used for bottoming type holes which this application is a through hole. I think a bigger thread with deeper threads is the solution. More surface area always does the trick!

On the upside, I just ordered TL-S rotors and they should be here soon. Will keep up the updates as they come in.

 

i would love to see this happen, i have a set of calipers on the way. i was going to do the TL-S lower ball joint and outer tie rod swap. but if you have a easier option then im all in. Thanks for the hard work guys. :rollsmile

 

How much more different are the TL-S knuckles compared to the TSX? Are the ball joints larger.

 

from what i read on here....yes. They are larger, according to K20z100's post

http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/1st-gen-suspension/10624-tl-sport-brakes-tsx.html

 

I think, based on my research, that the ball joints are the same size. The ball joint is integral and installed into the knuckle, not the lower control arm. so, if people are able to swap just knuckles and mount TL-S brakes, then they are the same size, otherwise they'd need to swap lower control arm also.

I think the only things needed to swap are: the brakes themselves, the knuckles from MT or TL-s, probably brake lines also (not sure on that offhand), and outer half of tie-rod (from reports I've read).

Better yet though is if Bardi can fab up a bracket to allow keeping TSX parts and mounting the TL-s brakes directly though.

Unfortunately the calipers I was working on getting, had stripped mount threads, so I am back to square one looking for a set. ah well... can always buy them new I suppose.


-Ed

 

I recently saw a pair of used TL Brembos on Acura z i n e, but if you want to buy new ones, then get them from AutoFair Honda: BNIB TL Type S Brembo Calipers $675 shipped & pp'd - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum

By the way, the upper and lower ball joints for both the TL and TSX are the same.