Good info. That was a nice read:thumbsup:

 

Hmm... Going for the RSX Crank Pulley eh?

Totally intriguing. Curl's physics in the group-buy thread has completely re-enlightened my view on the necessity of lightweight pulleys as well.

Have you ordered parts yet?

 

Eh, it's not really ground breaking...I mean, the whole point is to reduce drivetrain loss which results in more power getting to the wheels. Even on an engine dyno it would show an improvement.

It is simply giving the crank a mechanical advantage over the rest of the drive accessories.

 

Good info here, but.... I fail to see the point of going through all the hassle of changing that crank pulleys for like 2 horsepower. Granted, OEM quality and reliability encourage people to built frankeinstein motors, but they can only push so much (and usually it is not that much). Oh and welcome to Honda world where rotational mass matters more than underdriving

 

Every mod is usually a compromise.
While the UR pulleys would certainly add more power than the RSX-S pulley/damper, the UR pulleys are way more money, less durable aluminum & the UR crank pulley eliminates the factory damper.

This post & picture of the TSX engine with a knock in the bottom end & a UR crank pulley is disturbing:

K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum - View Single Post - Crank pulley w/o damper causes engine failure?


Eliminating the factory crank damper for a few more HP is a compromise also.


The purpose of my pulley chart to summarize all the pulley info so folks can make a informed decision.
Choose your compromise. :thumbsup:

 

Well I wouldn't say 2 hp on this until there some support posted up. I saw 2 accounts from tsx owners. One had a graph that showed like 4-6 whp over the whole range (that to me is pretty significant) and another claimed like 10-13 whp gains, albeit with no graph to support it. I think a little more can be had with a few other mods than a totallý stock motor but I don't think this is a bs mod at all.

I believe a modded can will see more mostly because an engine more eager to rev will benefit more from less rotational mass. Not that they'd be less effective on an unmodded eninge. Just might feel it more on one w some mods.

Marcus

 

Are you referring to UR pulleys dynos or 05-06 RSX-S crank pulley dynos? I was talking about installing RSX-S crank pulley and I HIGHLY doubt that it will break 5 WHP mark.

 

Sorry thought you were referring to URs.

 

All i know is I installed my NST pulleys not to long ago and love it!!

 

I think the main advantage of UR/other pulleys, over stock, is that the gains are throughout the entire powerband, not just mid or up-top. I noticed instant gains at every RPM level, even from a dead stop. This actually increases "area under the curve" more than probably a CAI + Header + High-flow cat combined... at least in my opinion (I have no true calculus to back this up, but say 5whp from 0 - 7300rpm... that's a LOT of area under the curve!)

 

What exactly is disturbing about the photo?

 

The post and picture show a failed 2006 TSX engine with a UR aluminum crankshaft pulley.

The UR crankshaft pulley does not have dampening function as all the stock Honda crankshaft pulley/dampers do.
Every engine that I can think of has a crankshaft harmonic damper installed.
I don't know of anyone removing or deleting the damper on any V8 American engine but it is common on Honda engines.

The folks vehemently opposing deleting the factory crankshaft damper claim that engine damage will occur. This may support that but it's far from fact yet.

For more detailed info, read the K20a.org threads that I posted above. This is where this picture came from.

 

ummm, ok, I see the UR pulley and I understand your point and worries, CalgaryTSX; however, I will take Marcus's side on this. For one thing, our engines are internally balanced "out of the box" and don't run harmonic dampeners like the older motors used to back in the 90's. Secondly, it is a very circumstantial issue indeed. What if the previous owner messed up? A factory defect? basic principle of accusing is "everyone is innocent unless proven otherwise". So unless blueprint will put out a solid proof that the pulley is the root of the issue, we can suspect, but no one can accuse the pulleys.

Yes, I do run UR pulleys on my car, but I did a fair bit of research on this and I am trying to stay objective about the topic.

 

TSX_WS, I agree with you & Marcus, it's all totally circumstantial until that engine comes apart & even then it may be nothing to do with the UR pulley or it may still be undefinitive what & why it failed.

On the other hand the Honda engines DEFINITELY have a crankshaft harmonic damper installed from the factory.
You can see the rubber ring separating the outer & inner metal rings in the pictures. The aftermarket Fluidamper & ATI Super damper maintain this damper function.

That was the whole discussion that Marcus brought up on his K20a.org thread...

While most modern engines are internally balanced these days, this is independent of the damper function. In fact, aftermarket dampers for the Ford V8's come with removable weights that can be removed or installed depending on how the engine crankshaft & flywheel/flexplate were balanced.

 

I know that olded H series and other motors had to have similar weights installed on crank pulleys and simply could not function without them. TSX is different. I felt no added vibrations or noise. Moreover people aroud this forum drove 100k+ kms wih UR pulleys with no issues whatsoever. So again, I need to see a TSX that failed due to the UR pulleys and it was proven before I will take any accusations.

 

Just because the factory pulley has a rubber ring in it doesn't mean the engine will shake itself to death without it, which is what the K20 people are grasping to so vehemently. I don't get that...they are so stuck on the revelation that came from realizing what was going on in the engine that they can't get their brains to allow the possibility that the damper is not a critical engine part.

 

I installed the RSX-S pulley in our TSX today.

The install was cake. The 1st thing I did was yank the front passenger tire & loosen the crank pulley bolt. If you can't get the crank pulley bolt loose, you are dead in the water.

I marked the crank bolt & pulley. My impact gun wouldn't touch it. I then used a 1/2" breaker bar with a deep 19mm socket, braced it on the lower A-arm & bumped the starter. The bolt was loose & off came the pulley.
I cleaned the seal, greased the new pulley & the seal.
It slipped right on & I cranked the bolt as tight as I could.
36 ft-lbs + 90degrees is spec, I got it to 36ft-lbs + 60degrees.

I had bought 2 Goodyear Gatorback shorter belts prior to starting, just guessing.
K4070682 was a little too long, K4070675 was a little too short.
Belt K4070675 (67.5" overall length) was tough to get on but it will be fine when it stretches a bit.

EDIT: Mar 23,2010, Belt K4070675 has stretched a bit & it is now fine.
Edit: Nov 2023, Installed Continental belt 4070677 (2009-2014 TSX belt) fits fine.

Took it for a test drive. Not much difference can be felt. It seems to rev up quicker but hard to say.

I have a Scangauge & can monitor voltage & water temp closely.
No changes that I can tell.


I updated the 1st page as I took careful measurements & weights of the stock TSX crank pulley & the new RSX-S pulley.

No question a smaller diameter lighter weight aluminum pulley would provide more power but I wasn't willing to eliminate the harmonic damper function of the crank pulley.

Total cost: RSX-S pulley Cdn$175 + belt Cdn$42 = C$217 (US$208)

Not sure it was worth it, but I enjoyed the research & the wrenching on the car...


If anyone in Calgary needs a hand installing pulleys on their TSX, I'd be happy to help out. My garage is open!

 

We have the new lowest value mod

jk jk. Props on doing this review !

 

+1 Great Review & Write Up.

 

+1

 

wish there was a before an after dyno cause i would prob do this if it showed a difference for sure

 

I agree, a before and after dyno would be nice, but I can't afford to dyno all my mods!

Since the UR pulley kit seems to add about 5-8 whp, the RSX-S pulley would be less than that.
But the RSX-S pulley is steel & has the damper function still incorporated in it.
I think everyone now has enough info to make an informed decision on pulleys.

A few folks have asked why I chose a Goodyear Gatorback belt.
It was the brand name belt that my nearby autoparts store carries. Any other name brand belt would be fine also.

Drove the car around a bit more today. It still seems to rev up quicker than before!

 

maybe get a vid of it revving ?

 

have a extra DC5 pulley for sale.

 

I'd say the possibility of making an informed choice is a little in the air still.

Why was it important for you to retain the damper?

Marcus

 

Why was it important for you to retain the damper?

Marcus

Hi Marcus,

Since this is my wife's car & we plan to keep it for a long time (as we do all our vehicle's) I wanted a steel OEM crank pulley with the damper function so there is never an issue.
I played it safe, compromised HP for reliability & peace of mind.

With the OEM RSX steel pulley it's an install & forget about it change. Plus I learned a lot going down my "pulley quest for information journey"!!
I hope the info I gathered & shared helps others.


After all this time, I totally agree that there is no definitive evidence that eliminating the damper function on a K-series Honda engine will cause any problems.

 

Ok but this is where I have a problem....

I played it safe, compromised HP for reliability & peace of mind.[/img]

After all this time, I totally agree that there is no definitive evidence that eliminating the damper function on a K-series Honda engine will cause any problems.

These two statements completely conflict with one another and they appear a mere 7 lines away from eachother in the same post!

On one hand you are saying that there is a risk involved with the aluminum part, but on the other you are saying no evidence exists that any risk exists. It is this tendency that gets people who are uneducated on the matter afraid of the part and spread a mis-informed stigma.

People will do as you do and not as you say. If you really got the RSX part because it was cheaper and the power was not as important, I can understand that. But that isn't what you said.

Clearly you are unwilling to admit that there isn't a side-effect involved. Why?

Marcus

 

Marcus there is no proof that UR pulleys don't cause damage either.
I have seen 2 different B-series motors with UR cranks pulleys that had excessive wear on their cranks. While its not %100 that the pulleys had anything to do with what happend there is nothing proving that they didn't cause the problem either.
Anytime you change parts aftermarket or OEM you take a risk in something going wrong.
I agree with CalgaryTSX's statement. He was trying not to bash the product your selling but he also didn't feel comfortable using a product would delete an OEM feature that he felt is important.

I pose this question why dosen't UR make their pulleys with a dampner? Then there would not be a debate & they would sell more even at a higher price they would have a wider customer base.

 

Thanks for your input Marcus & NC-B17A...

We're kinda going in circles here with the damper/no damper discussion.
It's not a black & white issue since there is no direct evidence either way. It's impossible for anyone to say that a damper is absolutely necessary or that it's not necessary.
All we can do is look at the large number of folks with UR & other aftermarket pulleys with no evident issues.

I don't want to influence everyone with my decision to go with the RSX-S pulley.
My situation is unique since this is my wife's car & I'm older than most on here.
I more wanted to share all the pulley info so everyone can make their own decision.
I'm definitely not bashing anyone's product.


Making pulleys with a damper really drives up the cost, as you can see from the Fluiddamper and ATI pulleys.
A harmonic damper actually has a lot of science behind it & is much more complex than a simple machined aluminum pulley.

 

Because K-series motors are internally balanced. BMW motors as well as old school B series and H series motors had to have dampeners. It was dangerous to run pulleys on them without harmonic dampeners, but as I said people around here ran UR pulleys for over 100k kilometers with no issues.

 

people around here ran UR pulleys for over 100k kilometers with no issues.

That's all the proof I would need.

 

So I got negative & positive feedback on my last post! :laugh: :laugh:


And so goes the crank damper discussion, just like the crank damper thread on K20a.org.

All I can say is that I sure don't know the answer...